A Travelling A25?

[Sunsetrider]

I've been enjoying the various tales of Albin 25 cruising adventures here - trying to shore up my self-confidence about heading out after retirement on a southward solo trek of my own. Manatee is currently experiencing some fueling and electrical issues - fuel tank flushed but suffering from periodic bouts of air-in-the-fuel-line disease. Turns out to be a loose baffle. And despite a new-in-the-box engine instrument panel, the thing simply does not work: no fuel gauge (new sender), no tach, no heat gauge . . . Sometimes the key fails to turn the starter over so I have to jump it. Despite a new ignition on the panel.

So for a few wild and crazy weeks I have been looking into a very different boat for sale on the next dock: a 1981 Carver 3007ac. Imagining all that space, the full galley, shower stall, FLY BRIDGE, roomy salon. But the reality of a very limited post-retirement budget brought me to my senses when considering keeping the dual 5.7 liter Crusdader V-8s in fuel as I travelled around the continent. No way.

Better to spend on addressing my current issues and fitting up Manatee for proper travel. So I am asking you intrepid and well-traveled 25-ers: what should I prioritize on my wish list? I currently nav with iPad. I have an older model hard-shell 8-ft. dinghy but have never used it in my local waters (or anywhere). And a good radio with DSC.

Windlass? Auto-helm? dinghy davits? (Swim platform is only about 3 feet wide). Fridge? Do I need to convert to a closed cooling system, and is that even possible?

[WillieC]

"Better to spend on addressing my current issues and fitting up Manatee for proper travel."

Excellent choice. One I may carry to my grave. I am starting the process of refreshing an engine for just such purposes. We paid too much for our boat, I have gone through just about everything there is to go through and know enough to not be intimidated should mechanical issues arise. And now I am learning more with the engine and fuel injections system. More than I want to know, but I am a curious fellow so it is all good.

Reading about your problems with the new control panel (are you the fellow that found a brand new in box panel?) is giving me pause. There is not much to those panels, unless somebody assembled one out of garbage parts and pieces, that you shouldn't be able to troubleshoot with a decent meter. My electrical upgrade started with the crispy wire ends I found in the engine compartment. then I found the two foot loop under the helm floorboard so I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Just uncoil the loop and shorten the wires by a foot or so, crimp new ABYC terminations on and be done. That started the snowball.

Now if you are not a curious fellow and feel that you are standing on previous owners' solid shoulders, go ahead and start adding new luxury parts. Otherwise, I would take good time familiarizing yourself with all the systems currently installed. Just a for instance: This spring while getting ready for the season, I thought I would sanitize potable water tanks, even though I did last season, and replace a failed seawater pump under the galley sink. Oh what the heck, I wasn't sure how the two tanks were plumbed together, and the vents were corroded shut on the hull. why not open her up and see what I've got. I found crud and unnecessary valves and 40 year old tube slimed almost closed. One day to replumb with pex and I now have an easy way to drain it come winter.

Forgive me if my thoughts are way offbase. You probably are way ahead of the curve when it comes to boat ownership and mechanical systems. I only share my story simply because I want my boat to bring me back home again. For the life of me, in its previous state, I don't know how we motored it for three days to our moorage when first we bought it. Dumb luck carried us, now I own it.

Best wishes! And keep us posted on your improvements.

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks for the encouragement Willie. While I am somewhat challenged mechanically, I do tend to dive now and then into deeper waters. For example I have already: installed new foot pump and water hose from the tank to the sink - but never actually put water in so far. I re-wired the battery room top to bottom, added an ACR and an onboard battery charger. Replaced the old circuit board panel with a new Blue Sea circuit breaker version; installed a wiper and horn. New canvas. I think the problem with the new engine panel might be a grounding issue. I have no idea how to check or fix, but I'll get someone aboard who can.

My main concern is the question of going into the briny. Rumour has it that Manatee was formerly in Florida with an AC unit and a closed cooling system - whether or not true, I need to find out if it is feasible to return to a closed system, and what happens if I don't.

[WillieC]

A very good start. We don't have AC up here in the frigid north unless you are referring to Alternating Current, which we do have. And I don't understand your question about the closed loop system. Are you referring to a heat exchanger (that utilizes a closed anti-freeze loop) and the open system, that uses raw water for engine cooling? Take a picture of your engine and surely someone can point you in the right direction.

[Sunsetrider]

Yes, your assumptions are correct - air cond. and heat exchanger, closed loop. I would like to know if anyone has made that conversion. (not AC, not interested in that).

[Beta Don]

I think you're spending your time and money very well. For trouble-free long distance cruising, get the electrical system straightened out, replace hoses and thru hulls if necessary and make the engine reliable - That doesn't necessarily mean converting a 40+ year old engine to freshwater cooling. I'm not sure that would do much to extend it's life at this point. If your boat is in Ontario, it's been freshwater cooled all that time anyway, hasn't it? Religiously change the engine zincs when you are in saltwater and you should be OK

When you make a long list of 'nice to haves' a windlass for a 25' boat would be near or at the very bottom of all things - Manually retrieving the anchor on a 25' boat is something you can easily do. Spend your windlass money on a good chart-plotter which uses the latest chart chips. You'll get 100X the use from that money vs buying a windlass

Don

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks for the input Don. The bottom of the St. Lawrence is weedy and I have had a few heart-pounding moments hauling a heavy load up to the foredeck. To the point where I avoid anchoring when I want to swim. Perhaps I will find friendlier bottoms when travelling! (that sounds wrong somehow).

I do want to know the extent to which venturing into sea water will or won't cause immediate and catastrophic damage to my 40-year old engine. I get your point about "life extension." Is that all it comes down to? I have never boated in other than fresh water so am not educated in that regard.

What are your thoughts on a wheel-drive auto-helm?

[Beta Don]

What are your thoughts on a wheel-drive auto-helm?

I think that's the only practical way to go unless you want to spend a *bunch* of money

On our A-27, we replaced the helm cable drive unit with a Canadian Octopus drive which motorizes the helm and allows you to drive it with a standard autopilot. The Octopus unit cost me $750 and the Raymarine autopilot I attached to it was $1800 more, for a total of $2550 - Way more than an autopilot is probably worth on a 35 year old, $10K boat, IMO. Find a used wheel drive unit for $500 and be happy with it's limitations . . . . at least until your lottery number turns up!

If the zincs are kept fresh, it will take saltwater a long time to eat away your engine - It does happen in boats used exclusively in saltwater for many years, especially if the zincs aren't regularly replaced, but it's not very likely to happen to you over the next 2 or 3 years. A FWC setup would be both difficult to do and expensive. A friend did it on his raw water cooled sailboat shortly after he bought it and the system was so problematic he eventually removed it. He re-engined the boat last year after more than 30 years of ownership (it's a 1982 Shannon 28) and never experienced any cooling system problems due to the raw water cooling

Don

[Vic K]

FYI:
Email Dan Gerhart ( C250@mydurango.net ) he rebuilds and sells wheel drive autopilots. Bought one for the Mary Jo at a good price that worked well. He also stands behind his work.

Vic

[Sunsetrider]

Thanks for the tip, Vic! I will follow up for sure!

Steve

[WillieC]

I am leaning more and more into Don's opinion regarding a heat exchanger. My A25 came with it so it was "free". It could be very expensive to convert and no small pain. And it gets in the way inside that tiny engine cover.
At this stage of life on your boat, I would leave it alone and learn how to deal with the normal maintenance that comes with saltwater. My PO, or as DesertAlbin736 calls it, "DPO" (Dreaded Previous Owner) told me that you should change the prop and rudder carrier zincs once a year whether you need to or not. My prop zinc might last two months and the rudder carrier might last two years. Now I admit I am in more brackish water than where the boat came from and it is warmer here in the sunbelt of Hood Canal, so that may affect sacrificial rates. Oh, and the diver who replaced his zincs? Didn't have 30mm for the shaft so he substituted one that wouldn't tighten so it had very little sacrificial effect and slid up to obstruct the proper operation of the cutlass bearing. Both of which now need replacement. I call it maintenance, so I don't hold it against him. Too much. Point is, Know Your Boat. If you have to replace the prop zinc every month, you have to do it.
Also, find any zincs on the engine and transmission. I have the original MD3B and haven't found zincs on the engine, yet (but it has been converted to closed loop/ heat exchange). There are two on the HX. The spare engine I am preparing for swapping is an MD17C with the MS type transmission. This hunk of metal runs seawater through it for cooling the tranny, only in reverse I think I read somewhere. I found a tiny, what looks to be remnants of a pencil zinc on the bottom of it. Makes sense. Need more research (anybody weigh in here.) If it is in fact a zinc, I will probably drill and tap it out to something I can buy at any marine supplier rather than trying to find the correct British thread to fit.
All this to say I don't know what zincs are on your engine, maybe none. Although I read that freshwater also has its issues and uses a different metal for sacrificing.
There is also limited clearance for installing a zinc on the prop shaft, so beware not to block the cutlass bearing. Also there may be some axial shaft movement (in and out) when shifting so watch out for that. The RB transmission is about 1/4", though your mileage may vary.
Good luck! Can't wait to hear of your outfitting and adventures southward! Come on out to Puget Sound and go nuts! I read about the poor folks on the Chessie who have only a few feet of water under them and are forever adding depth sounders and redundancy and sacrificing offspring to avoid running aground. I have 125' a stone's throw out and up around the bend is 400 feet and up near the subbase is over 600 feet.
Cheers!

[Sunsetrider]

Dang. Lost my reply to the board trolls! I'll repost when back on land.

[Sunsetrider]

Well I certainly don't mind hearing the advice "no need to spend money on that"! And I'll look into the anode sitch at Fall haulout. I have the MD17C so let me know if you find anything relevant in the innards. I wonder if I can get by without the hassle of a dinghy?

I hope Desert Albin kicks in at some point. No doubt they have learned many lessons about spending extended time aboard the A25.

[Beta Don]

My prop zinc might last two months and the rudder carrier might last two years. Now I admit I am in more brackish water than where the boat came from and it is warmer here in the sunbelt of Hood Canal, so that may affect sacrificial rates.

You have a *serious* grounding issue! I'm assuming this is when you're parking it in a slip, hooked up to AC power? It would be even worse in pure saltwater than brackish water

A prop zinc usually lasts me two years, from bottom paint job to bottom paint job . . . . but then, I have a 'Drivesaver' between the transmission flange and the shaft coupling flange which electrically insulates any ground current from happening on the shaft

Don

[DesertAlbin736]

Minor 2 cents from one who is now on the road in the midst of returning 1,600 miles to Phoenix from Bellingham, WA after 45 days on the water where we logged 573 NM going from Bellingham through the San Juan Islands, across Haro Strait to Sidney, BC, on up through the Gulf Islands to Nanaimo, thence across Georgia Strait to Pender Harbour on the Sunshine Coast, and on up Jervis Inlet to Princess Louisa Inlet and Chatterbox Falls and back.

In all fuel consumption was 45.7 gallons at a cost of $147, a good deal of that purchased in Canada where fuel prices are much higher even taking the exchange rate into account.

Bottom line is that just about no other cruising boat with this much cabin space in 25 foot length other than sailboats can get this kind of fuel economy.

Is it worth spending a lot on repairs and upgrades? All depends on what you plan on doing with it. But don't expect to recover all those costs. It's about the memories you'll have when all is said and done.

For example, we lost our dinghy in rough seas and came close to losing our boat and even our lives, but we got through it. But I also spent $2,000 replacing that dinghy with a new Gig Harbor Nisqually. And then there's this board and the fact Albin boats are a cult classic.