Albin 27 - Mast Thread

[JT48348]

I hear you. I did a bunch of research on this and determined not to include the rudder. There is some disagreement on this some say with, some say without, some say a percentage.

I used the 2' line drawing made a below waterline cut out then transferred to cardboard stock and got a balance point.

[JT48348]

Some interesting experimenting and comments were just posted about putting a sailing rig back on a A25 on the Yahoo Albin group.
Do you get the emails?

Yes parts of posting carried over here. Good stuff
Rudder Thread with Account of A25 sailing

[Beta Don]

The correct position of the mast on a sailboat depends a lot on the design of the 'underbody', most importantly the lift generated by the keel - Our A27 keel would generate very little lift as it wasn't designed to be a sailboat

Also, the mast positioning formulas would take into account both the headsail *and* the mainsail full and drawing to give you the correct center of effort. If you're going to use a standard sized headsail and a very small main, your mast would need to be moved aft a good deal farther than you think it should be if your goal is minimal weather helm

I would think it's going to be almost impossible to calculate where your mast needs to be - I would consider setting it up temporarily and seeing how it works before you commit to a position based solely on 'guesstimations'

Don

[NickScheuer]

There are a few fairly large sailing vessels out there which have their mast standing all the way aft, rigged with a single large "jib". This might make some sense on an A-27 which has most of its lateral plane (keel) located aft at the skeg ahead of the rudder. In order to keep such a jib from having a foot longer than its leech, the forestay could be anchored to the deck just ahead of the forecabin. the forestay could even have an inverted "V" which would be anchored out by the rails instead of along the deck's centerline, so that no reinforcement would be needed under the foredeck.

Just some thoughts "outside the box", so to speak. of

[smacksman]

The CLR verses CofE calcs are really only relevent to sailing to windward. 'Gentlemen don't sail to windward' , as the saying goes, is surely correct in the case of a cruiser.
I see the angle of the shrouds a big problem. Let's face it - walking the side decks is not easy as it is.

[Jay Knoll]

I've followed this thread with skeptical interest. The whole project seems like a whole bunch of effort for very little payoff, but hey, its not my boat so go for it. Cruising the ICW in an 27FC is a different experience than when we did it in our Crealock 37. Most notably slipping under bridges instead of waiting for an opening, something that would no occur as frequently with a mast installed.

[Beta Don]

I've followed this thread with skeptical interest. The whole project seems like a whole bunch of effort for very little payoff, but hey, its not my boat so go for it. Cruising the ICW in an 27FC is a different experience than when we did it in our Crealock 37. Most notably slipping under bridges instead of waiting for an opening, something that would no occur as frequently with a mast installed.

Initially, I felt the very same way - Way too much effort and modification for way too little gain, but I've changed my thinking - At least a little bit

Compared to any sailboat or even a larger trawler, the A27 literally bobs around like a cork in any kind of a sea at all. Not a comfortable ride. A 'steadying sail' like you have on most true motorsailers would be a welcome addition, I think. *IF* you were cruising the Atlantic ICW, any mast which gives you a bridge clearance of more than 20 feet would be a royal pain, as Jay mentioned, but cruising the Great Lakes I doubt that would be a big consideration. Also, if you were cruising where you were doing lots of locks, stepping over the shrouds several times a day might eventually have you in the drink a time or two, but if you're not concerned with locks or bridges, then it's not so much of a concern

My biggest concern for JT is that he's going to wind up 'in the same boat' (pun intended) as we did - He fell in love with the concept of the A27 before he had any on the water experience with the boat. He's spending several years (as we did) completely overhauling the boat, spending actually lots more money than the boat is worth (as we did) to create what he thinks will be the ideal small cruiser - We thought so too, but then once we got it out on the water we found that the boat actually didn't suit our intended purpose at all - It's a fair weather 'day boat' and not really a 'cruiser'. Too small, too cramped, didn't handle any kind of a sea very well at all and had white water flying all about with white knuckles on the wheel way too often. We stuck it out, determined not to give up on all the money we spent, all our months of work and even though the boat turned out to be a major disappointment in so many ways, we were gonna complete our journey come hell or high water!!

The fact that we knocked a hole in the keel in Jacksonville actually turned out to be a blessing - We had figured out that it wasn't working as we had hoped long before that, but we didn't want to admit it to ourselves. We would not have had much fun dealing with it's shortcomings and it would have been a very long, long year if we had kept going. We'll be buying a 38 to 40 footer any day now and doing it again next year . . . . in 10X more comfort than what we experienced with our A27. I truly hope that the A27 turns out to be JT's dream boat after all his work and investment and that he's happy owning it for the rest of his life . . . . but I do have my doubts

Don

[deniseO30]

If I ever do get a 27 I would be keen on adding a mast. I read all 3 pages of this discussion an no one mentioned

Which is often found on catboats.

It can be done on aluminum masts also.

Just something to ponder . "tabernacle"

[Beta Don]

An excellent idea, IMO!

Since JT only wants to use the sail downwind, the usual argument against catboats (they don't go the weather well) is a non-issue. Since he only wants a mast 20' or so tall, he could use an oversized aluminum extrusion and get by with no stays or shrouds at all, which would really simplify things. Also, since he would have a long boom to store the sail on, he could use a fully battened sail which holds a much better shape than one without battens

One thing for sure - It answers the problem of calculating where the mast should go!

It would require a substantial superstructure both at the deck and below to support the mast, but I don't think that would be too hard to accomplish. The only negative that I see is, how do you step and unstep the mast which has no shrouds or stays to be able to trailer the boat? A foldable mast like the one in the photo would work fine, but that looks like an expensive alternative - Wonder what buying one of those would cost? It would need to fold much higher up so the mast would lay flat on the pilothouse roof

Don

[deniseO30]

I wasn't saying make a motor cruiser into a sailboat.. just suggesting the tabernacle is a way to bring a mast down and not have to unstep it from the deck/cabin top.

[JT48348]

The mast will be stepped directly to the deck just aft of the forward hatch. The mast step Is a slotted stainless fitting through bolted to the deck on a pad approximately 1" off the deck. This is a standard afair on deck step masts on older boats.

Raising the mast is easy. You take the mast from where it's stowed on the roof and you slot the foot of the mast in the mast step. You attach two lower aft shrouds. You raise the mast by walking forward, attach the forestay and remaining shrouds. It's easy and simple. It's just like a trailer sailer. The shrouds go to the cabin top just inside the hand rail position, thereby keeping the side decks free. The chain plates are Catalina 22 eyebolts that came with the rig. They go through the cabin top thru backing plates and are nutted off. This is basically the same configuration as the Albin 25.

The mast step is supported by the new head bulkheads whose corner is right in the vicinity of the mast step pad.