number of people on 28

[RobS]

I've been following this thread since you started it. I would have never expected a 45 minute boat ride was involved. I just "assumed" you would be idling out at hull speed, just outside your marina area for an on-water viewing.

Open water, congestion with a lot of "confused" boat wakes (and maybe a few confused boaters).....you're "uneasy" feeling makes sense to me..

[catalina_mike]

I hope I don't read about you in an incident log. As my wife and I say to friends who just can't say no. Say word #2 http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2015 ... to-say-no/ If you actualy go through with this all children should have their life jacket on even below deck.

[chesapeake albin]

Oh look , the peanut gallery....
I appreciate all the comments from speculators but I am looking for some actual information.
Albin designed this boat to carry, 1020 lb of fuel 240 lbs of water the Cummins weighs 1000 lbs more than the yanmar, some have gensets
you add some many people etc the coast guard says 18??

I am hoping for some experience such as, here is what I did and and my water line did this....

the thread is two pages now and not a single helpful thought out response

Thanks

[RobS]

.... all children should have their life jacket on even below deck.

IMO that is a death trap.

[RobS]

Oh look , the peanut gallery....

and

...the thread is two pages now and not a single helpful thought out response

Well comments like those are surely not going to help you.

[catalina_mike]

.... all children should have their life jacket on even below deck.

IMO that is a death trap.

I probably would agree thinking about it now. But if the gunnel gets swamped (no peanuts but I would be concerned) trappment with flotation in the small cabin does present a challenge. If there is a local Sheriff or Coast Guard station I would ask them because they will be enforcing what they think is unsafe. Trying to cure one problem with another is agreed the wrong path. I simply would not do it to begin with. How can you find empirical data of how the boat will be planning, if it does, and handle wakes with a load like that. You ask for opinions and you have them. But as suggestions go we don't have to live with your decision, You do. Good luck and I truly hope it works out.

[Jeremyvmd]

The likelihood of anyone sticking out their neck and saying you will be fine is, well, very unlikely, and based on your responses I suspect you are looking for confirmation that the situation is safe.

I think its excessive, I personally wouldn't sail with 11 people (even with half of them being kids). Why? Because the most I've had on board was 6 adults. Admittedly three of those adults were north of 200lbs but still. With those 6 people on board I saw a significant change in the way the boat planed, and even at low speed it was less responsive and tended to respond more harshly to a beam sea. Now all 6 of those people are seasoned boaters...pretty much every one of us had grown up on boats, with ages ranging from 33 to 70...so a few years experience. You start mixing kids and people who are not experienced boaters, and some confused seas and next thing you know your asking for some sort of trouble.

Mathematically can the hull handle that kind of weight - yes...keep the tank at 1/4 full are your golden, BUT people are not static weight...doesn't take much to create an unsafe condition. People want to move around for a better view or to talk to someone else or ... you can see where I'm going with this.

Also lets keep in mind boats are mechanical devices...its not a matter of IF something will go wrong, its WHEN. Can you deal with a potential issue with that many bodies on board? If you need to do something with the motor, or if your taking on water and you have to respond, will you be able to? What if someone has a health issue (vomiting or injury) or a child doesn't listen and goes overboard, will you have the space and the maneuverability to deal with that?

I don't know if you consider that helpful OR thought out, but that's the best your getting out of me

[drbob]

One adult in drivers seat, one in the navigators seat with one child standing looking forward or sitting on the nav table facing aft. Four adults sitting on the engine box each in charge of a specific child or two who are standing or sitting on the deck (can be easily moved in an emergency). One child sitting on the engine box facing forward or aft. Have a talk with everyone about moving around until your on location. Remember it's a wet ride in back when you plane in any seas whatsoever.

You have two open drains or scuppers that are partly submerged in the back of the boat. They have flaps on them to prevent water from flowing in from astern. As you load people watch to see if the boat goes down enough to let water flow in such that it goes over the hatch covers and into the bilge. If so, you'll be in a constant state of sinking and relying on your aft bilge pump to keep you afloat.

Before you leave the dock, get everyone to move to one side of the boat and then to the back of the boat, just like they'll do if they see something interesting in the water. If you feel comfortable with the way the boat looks, and no water comes in, then you have pretty solid proof that you're not overloaded in calm conditions. What if you have two foot seas (standard size chop for boats rushing about)? Will you still feel the same?

Be sure to conduct a life jacket drill so you can be sure everyone can get one on. The kids will of course need them on before you leave the dock and keep them on so long as you're out on the water. They should only be removed to go to the bathroom and then put them back on. They must be the right size for the child. Oh, and get everyone in a life jacket before you try the run to the rail and run to the back of the boat exercise.

Take ginger ale, ginger snap cookies, and ginger gum for the kids. Great if anyone starts feeling woozy. If an adult gets woozy, have them take charge of sighting things on the horizon for navigation (and give them an ale, cookies and gum). They need to feel in charge of something and that something should looking forward. Barf bucket at the ready.

That plus all the other stuff you learn in a safe boating course will payoff. The biggest one, is how will you recover a partly unconscious 200 lb person? Hint, you can't lift that much dead weight. We carry a block and tackle that hooks to the center of the radar arch (available at West Marine). Now we can roll them up and over either side or up and on to the swim platform. The arch and the roof can easily take the weight. It's the damnedest things we need to prepare for. Who will use the radio when you're tied up? Where is your first aid kit when you need it?

You've got a big responsibility, so delegate specific control items to your adult passengers and make the kids responsible for being safe (buddy the kids).

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Yearwood]

I have had 17 adults on for short periods when acting as a tender for a log canoe and running the crew to and from shore. I do not like it one bit. Pulling them out after capsizing is a major problem.

The first problem is the scuppers going under and sea water lowing back to the hatch coamings. Have not had a problem with the exhaust, but depending on the manner in which it is secured there is potential. Some Albins have reported poor securing of the flange at the hull.

With a large number of people it is necessary for the weight to be reasonably balanced fore and aft as well as athwart-ship. It is also necessary that people pay attention.

In normal operation, when cruising or fishing I do not like more than six. The consideration in this case is comfort.

[Cape Codder]

We've had loads similar. Hasn't been a problem if the Captain gives strict instructions to everyone to stay put with no "sudden rushes" to one side or the other. Try positioning everyone so you are balanced without the need of the tabs.
Then if you need the tabs, you've got them, and they'll have an effect.

With such a load....you are inviting a USCG inspection.
Be sure you have EVERYTHING required.

[chesapeake albin]

Thank you
there are some really good points here

[special k]

too many horror stories out there, particularly for viewing fireworks. an overloaded boat no matter how marginal, does not behave well in rough or confused seas. and as rob stated some confused helmsmen as well.
rough and confused conditions almost always exist with large numbers of boats leaving the "viewing area" even on calm evenings.

now figure excited children into this equation.

short note about pfd's in cabins of swamped and sinking boats....deadly!


good luck and stay safe

[chesapeake albin]

So the results of the cruise yesterday,.....

I had 4 adults,
6 kids, (8 years old, 60 lbs each about)
1 60 lb chocolate lab
around 1/2 tank fuel,

I have the Cummins 6B, no generator

I cruised from Pasadena to Annapolis full speed, 18kt
anchored in "confused" water
cruised home and let the kids swim for an hour

Results......

NO significant change in waterline or boat handling..
Maybe we were an inch lower, it was hard to tell. no where close to putting the scuppers in the water
The boat did not sink,
No one had to swim for shore.
We did not get boarded, the kids all were completely fine after a short "what not to do" talk
In fact, I found my self thinking I could have invited a few more.

We had a good time.

Again, Thanks for everyone contributing to my questions
The trip to Annapolis was well worth it. The Blue angels put on a great show.

Travis

[Yearwood]

Glad your trip was uneventful for problems and enjoyable. One son, one daughter and friends we also on the Severn. I could only listen from AAMC.

Regards

Don