How to bleed the fuel system on a Peugeot/Lehman?

[sail149]

The Lehman manual shows 3 bleed screws but looking at my engine the third upper screw is not there! There is just a hole!
Early peugeots used a slightly different pump but I think the Lehman conversions had the same pump.
Warren

[sail149]

By the way the Volvo version of the same base engine ( mentioned it the ybm forum kindly pointed out by Kerrye..) is configured quite differently from the Lehman.
The MD21A is the older type with bolt down injectors the MD21B is closer as it uses the screw in injectors but there is a lot different, Volvo made a cast iron housing for the thermostat ( the Lehman has it in a hose) Volvo put the heat exchanger in front!, different Trans,different intake and exhaust manifolds. Actually quite interesting how the same engine is quite different. I read the Volvo used the chain drive for the valve and pump timing the Lehman has the gear version. Both were Peugeot designs and used in their cars both ways.

Sorry Rick I did not mean to hijack you thread but I think some of this is interesting and may help you get you engine bleed and running.

You tubes of the Volvo MD21B version of the 4d61
http://youtu.be/-ZKqsYM4EwQ
http://youtu.be/OBiUA06rrMk

Interesting Volvo modifications, some would apply to the 4d61. http://youtu.be/b9M9hNbVk2I
They talk about an electric raw water pumps too which I think is an interesting option, these are used in race cars now so they should be reliable as long as it's salt water proof!
Warren

[sail149]

Sorry more hijacking of thread

I keep looking for different engine details and found this Vetus version of the 4D61
http://youtu.be/JFMq1K_737o
And this more basic version of a marinzaded engine
I do not like the custom rubber adapters on this motor, the earlier Lehmans used
The same , glad we don't have them to keep in good condition.
http://youtu.be/gqlte074LYE

All in all I am quite liking the low height and compact version of the Peugeot engine that Lehman put together and was used in our Albin 27's

Here is a picture of the Vetus engine pump side.

[kerrye]

That's great info on all the different versions of the engine. You found more than me when I looked. I was surprised I couldn't find a simple tutorial on bleeding that engine given its widespread use.

[REO]

Preview: Re: How to bleed the fuel system on a Peugeot/Lehman?
Warren
You sure found some interesting variations of our engine. Too bad they quit making it.
I took a close look at my pump and compared to your photos, I believe that I have the same one as you. No upper bleed screw.
The manual shows a screw on the front of the pump at the same height as the upper bleed screw. I have that screw, and guess that it is also on yours. But, since it is pictured in the manual and not labeled as a bleed screw, I am not going to mess with it.
I was also concerned about a defective fuel shutoff switch. I removed the cylinder from the switch to be sure it was not sticking. I still get fuel to the lower bleed screw with the cylinder in or out.
I am beginning to think that I still have a pocket of air, and though fuel flows from the lower bleed screw, maybe there is just enough air to keep the pump from operating properly. The most likely problem area is the primary filter. I did not recognize the bleeder screw, so I bled it by cracking the output banjo connection till clear fuel flowed out. Maybe that was not enough. I am off the project for a few days, but will report back hopefully with success when I get to this next test.

[kerrye]

Generally it's a good idea to fill your primary filter with fuel or something similar which will burn like Diesel Kleen or Power Service or to avoid a big bubble of air from an empty filter.

[sail149]

I changed my secondary filter , opened the bleed on the filter and had no issues with loosing prime.
The primary filter should not be an issue at all.
Rick, is there anything with the electric pump location that could be an issue, Is it low and below the primary filter?

Kerrye re engine variations, apparently the Mahrindra jeep made in India uses a version of the Peugeot engine.
I could not find a good photo of it though.
A little while ago I was looking into the noise issue and my slow brain finally figured out what the common rail thing is on more modern diesels.(I think). The latest versions actually don't use a timed injector pump like we have but use electrically timed injectors ( like gas engines) that allow all sorts of special pre and metered injection so they get power from the fuel in a smoother more continueous way instead of the one big 'bang' we have and hence the noise associated with it. While I like the no electrics required once running that our (in)direct injection engines have the quiet smoothness of the common rail is very attractive. The reason this might be of interest to us is that Yanmar have started producing "common rail engines" in the sub 110hp as low as 45hp. ( various tech reasons for this).
Engine weight of ~ 500# is about the same though. Where they really make gains is getting up to 150hp from a 2.0L X #580 turbo 4 cyl engine. ( almost same wt as we have now for over double the power).
Of course a new engine costs way more than the value of the boat but the future is changing...... And we don't need all that power......but Albin did put 180 hp in their last 27's.
http://www.yanmarmarine.eu/News-detail/ ... e-diesels/

[REO]

The new pump is about an inch below the primary filter. That's about 6 inches above where the old mechanical pump was.
I completely re-bled the system. Fully charged batteries, throttle wide open. All fittings and hose connections tight. Good clean flow from every bleed point til I get to the output from the injector pump. There is good flow but it has bubbles. Same with the injectors. Good fuel flow with bubbles, even after 20-30 seconds on each injector.
My next try will be to crank with one injector cracked open with my hand on the starter to be sure it does not overheat. It doesn't seem like it should take this long to clear the air in the injector pump. And, where did the air come from? I was careful not to introduce air when I installed the new pump.
I am off again for a few weeks. Lucky I don't need to get her in the water soon.

[Vic K]

The old CAV fuel filters were notorious for leaking air if you didn't get them back together just so. You can get a spin on filter adapter to replace the CAV for the 4D61.

[REO]

A spin on filter sounds like a good idea. I'll do that next winter. But, I didn't replace the filter, so it is unlikely that the leak is coming from there. I did replace all of the fuel return lines. But, they should not be the problem since they are after the injectors. It's a puzzlement.

[sail149]

Are you sure the return lines are clear? Wouldn't what that to confuse things

[sail149]

Hi
I reread you posts.
I guess you will have to go back to the beginning.
Start at the feed pump, crack a connection and check for no air
, then work you way along each hose and fitting until you find air, some fitting or hose or banjo fitting has developed a leak.
Does not sound like fun or easy.

[Sprig1]

I know this is bad. Have you tried giving it a shot of ether to see if it will catchers. It will tell if it is a fuel problem or something else.

[sail149]

You know, yes easy start is bad, but when I was a mechanic helper for a diesel ford transit in uk with ford/York engine, it came from Ford with a pump in the dash board to give it a dose of ether on cold mornings! We also used to use 2 batteries in the winter to have enough power to crank it until it started.
Good high mileage engines when running but hard to start!!!!
As I remember they did not have glow plugs , hence the above.
Warren

[kerrye]

Be careful using ether on a glowplug engine. The glow will cause the ether to ignite in portions of the cycle which are not TDC. This can cause damage.

Putting a piece of clear hose right before the IP can sometimes tell you if there are air bubbles coming into the IP with the fuel.