Off Shore

[cvsailor]

having a crazy though of crossing the atlantic with mine's. Distance 3200 miles, no fuel autonomy for the trip, but thinking of adding a sailing rig to it. Any suggestions out there?

[rnummi]

Shortest distance (south Atlantic) and fuel bladders. If you are a fan of circumnavigation books you will note that west to east is contra to prevailing winds. Not to say it can't be done. Boldly go where no Albin has gone before.

[rnummi]

Basically, there are several routes that are appropriate for small power vessels wishing to make such a passage in late spring or early summer. Each of these routes will have favorable currents. The traditional stops for refueling are Bermuda and the Azores.
The northernmost route is from New York, or Block Island, following an approximate Great Circle curve to the Azores, then to Cape St. Vincent, the southwestern point of Europe, and another day’s run to Gibraltar. This route has favorable currents, and according to the pilot chart, in July, more than 65 percent of observations showed winds of Force 4 or less and from a favorable direction. Moreover, Gulf Stream currents have a maximum velocity of .8 knots, or almost 20 miles per day, a big help when fuel is a factor. The disadvantages of this route are the probability of fog, more unstable weather, and the large number of ships in the East Coast approaches.
The second route is from the Middle Atlantic ports to Bermuda, thence to the Azores and Gibraltar. Once in Bermuda, you’re out of the Stream and you then follow a slight ENE curve to the Azores. There are a few favorable currents on the run from Bermuda, but the short initial leg of less than 700 miles gives an opportunity to prepare for the long stretch to the Azores. The weather is generally more stable than the Gulf Stream. Gales are rare and, with the exception of an early hurricane, originate more to the north.
There are two routes from Miami. The first follows the Stream to a point north of the Bahamas, thence to Bermuda and beyond. The final route, and basically the shortest to the Mediterranean, starts in Miami or Ft. Lauderdale, then through the NW and NE Providence Passage taking departure from the SE tip of the Abacos, then to Bermuda and the Azores. The majority of large poweryachts and ships use this route when sailing

[JT48348]

Rnummi: really? you really ought to credit the source of your info if it's pulled from another document or information source.

Scroll down and your post is word for word from the following site. No idea if it's sourced by someone else before it was used here. But as a lawyer, you should know better.

http://www.kadeykrogen.com/articles/pag ... rawler.htm

I have a plan for installing a mast on my A27. But the rig is not for sailing to weather. It's for trollering so there are some limitations. I think someone could make the crossing but there are modifications needed to the Albin 27. A stock boat is not the way to go.

[rnummi]

I certainly wasn't trying to imply that he knowledge was mine.... (As anyone reading my posts could easily get). I did the same thing you did, Google cross Atlantic in a small trawler... Sorry if I implied knowledge I didn't have... Just cutting and pasting w fat fingers. I stand corrected.

[rnummi]

I certainly wasn't trying to imply that he knowledge was mine.... (As anyone reading my posts could easily get). I did the same thing you did, Google cross Atlantic in a small trawler... Sorry if I implied knowledge I didn't have... Just cutting and pasting w fat fingers. I stand corrected.

[rnummi]

I like the mast on the 27 idea. Shouldn't be any reason it couldn't be done. Bracing on our hollow core roof, stepped to keel. I was at Don's Salvage the other day where you could buy mast, boom and rigging for less than 500. Problem would be chain plates. I think Beta Don noted that the keel of the Albin was hollow. I used to have an O'day 23 w a swing keel.... That would be easily plugged in as well. The good thing about the 27 is the design is great for modifying. To wit, with enough epoxy you can make a pretty decent boat.

BTB, no way I would go into deep blue water where you couldn't run in to dodge weather in a stock Albin 27. I just inadvertently disconnected my pilothouse. Didn't know it was loose until I pulled the last two screws to find a leak. With appropriate mods and reinforcement this puppy could be rock solid.

[Beta Don]

BTB, no way I would go into deep blue water where you couldn't run in to dodge weather in a stock Albin 27.

I agree - This is certainly no offshore boat. I would think twice about losing sight of land for more than a few hours in mine. I'm currently sitting in Appalachicola waiting on a very favorable 24 hour forecast before I make a 100 mile crossing. The way the hull and deck are joined (maybe 'joined' isn't a good word, since it's no more than a strip of plastic and a few pop rivets!) would give me zero confidence that the boat could handle half of what mother nature could dish out - Take along a good life raft for sure!

Perhaps the A25 is a bit more seaworthy? - I'm not sure, but it couldn't be any worse

Don

[cvsailor]

Thanks to each and everyone of you for the input. I am a holder of USCG 1600 Master ocean, have crossed the Atlantic many times on ships both military (ex BM1 US NAVY), and regular small freighters 1200 DWT.
Don't really know my 27 handling characteristics, and behavior in seaways. I have been in process of rehabbing her, top to bottom. I am hoping to get her on the water this summer. I'll have a firmer grip than. Prior owner used to take it to florida yearly, unfortunately he passed away and the boat was left derelict at marine where it partially sunk. I kept my oday 32 at the same marina, and couldn't help not to fall in love with the A27 lines. So I felt compelled to rescue her. Just installed a volvo penta 135 HP, new elctrical, new headliner. Still long way to go, but can now make use of it while the work is progressing.
Was looking for your experiences offshore with yours.
Once again thanks for the input.

[Beta Don]

I kept my oday 32 at the same marina, and couldn't help not to fall in love with the A27 lines. So I felt compelled to rescue her. Just installed a volvo penta 135 HP, new elctrical, new headliner. Still long way to go, but can now make use of it while the work is progressing.

I'm with you there!

I regularly sailed my 34' sailboat between Biloxi and the Keys and one of my favorite spots was Pirates Cove in Elberta Alabama. A really secluded little cove with an all weather anchorage large enough for 25 or 30 boats . . . . plus a famous little restaurant with the best hamburgers around - Supposedly Jimmy Buffet wrote 'Cheeseburger In Paradise' right there in the restaurant. Anyway, for several years there was an A27 tied up to a private pier at the head of the cove and I admired her lines every time I went there. When I finally saw one out of the water, I was really impressed with the hull shape

When we got tired of taking the sailboat up the river every year or two to spend time in our 'hurricane hole' I told my wife our next boat would be something that fit on a trailer. Like you, I bought a 'project boat' and have done many of the same things you're doing to yours . . . . it's just taken me much, much longer than I anticipated to get it all done. We're cruising now, but still working on projects as we go along

Compared to a similar sized sailboat, it's a bit bouncy, not as directionally stable (I think any autopilot would have a really hard time in a quartering or following sea keeping the pointy end forward) and powering into waves of any significant size results in white water flying completely over the boat. If you're wondering if good windshield wipers are a necessity, they certainly are if you plan on seeing where you're going

If you intend to take her offshore, I would certainly look to make a major improvement in the hull to deck joint - Maybe some bolts and glass

All that said, she's boosting my confidence in her abilities as we go along - I liked the lines and the looks and I'm liking the way she handles more every day . . . . but, if you're background is offshore sailing craft, that she ain't

Don

[Tree]

There are loads of A25's and 27's here in the UK and mainland Europe - i'd just not take the risk and sell up, jump on a plane and buy one here

[smacksman]

Having experienced nasty weather in a small sailboat crossing oceans my first response is NO. If the statistics say there is only 15% chance of bad weather then you will probably get it in the weeks of a crossing.
And bad weather in a 27 foot boat is Force 7.
And can you imagine going on the foredeck to reef the sails on the six inch wide side decks past the cabin as she is rolling 20 degrees? I've crawled on the decks in the past to stay with 27' sail boats.
If you really want to do it then assume you will be rolled over and so take design precautions from there.

[rnummi]

Based on the comments so far, its theoretically possible if...you address the following:

1. Completely rebuild/redesign/reinforce the hull deck joint.
2. Remove and rebuild/redesign/reinforce the Pilot House/Deck junction.
3. Strip the interior linings and reinforce the "half glass" interior issue.
4. Remove and rebuild/redesign/reinforce every fitting on the deck.
5. Remove rebuild/redesign/reinforce the Pilot House Windows.
6. Remove and replace the Beckson port lights with New Found Metal ports or other "bluewater" type ports.
7. Remove rebuild/redesign/reinforce every engine room mounted fitting/tank/engine mount/through hull.
8. Address the cockpit scupper diameter issue.
9. Remove rebuild/redesign/reinforce the flimsy fore and aft doors.
10. Have a friend with a trans oceanic blue-water trawler willing to follow you to be your rescue/support vessel.
11. Assure the Coast Guard that your little Albin's voyage isn't "manifestly unsafe".

Am I missing anything?

A great philosophic discussion that highlights all our little A27 "quirks". Folks have crossed the ocean in canoes but to my knowledge they always had support vessels nearby to pluck them from disaster. For all intents and purposes the little 27 looks like a bluewater lobster boat. A closer look reveals that looks can be deceiving. A good Bosun's Mate would take one look at the fittings/construction of an A27 and realize that there was a lot of rebuilding/redesign/reinforcing to do.

Then again, every Bosun's Mate I ever met in my 14 year Navy stint would rub his hands together with a gleam in his eye and go "When do we start making it seaworthy and what's the best port of departure"

[JT48348]

That's a lot of bloviation through ofuscation. Man, I think we need a little perspective. I've listened with a sort of puzzled gape while perspective is reported as reality and my shovel is getting a little small for the output.

Let's get some perspective.

There no question the Albin 27 suffers from some production/build inadequacies. But given that they were produced in the 1980s-1990s it's not uncommon or that surprising. The differences between 1980s boats and 1970s(Albin 25) are well known. It's a matter of economics and no more overbuilding boats when fiberglass was cheap. Yes there were short cuts. It is a boat designed for coastal cruising. Most boats are. And the price point new and used matches perfectly.

Not all the build issues affect all the boats in the production line. Some more so than others, especially the first 100 in the 1984 range, I gather. We get that. But there's about 1900 other Albins outside that range. Yes there are common issues. But not everyone has issues with pilothouse attachment or hull deck joint assembly. Btw this hull deck joint while not too robust or brilliant is extremely common in production boats. I sense hysteria regarding the potential for hull deck separation or pilothouse detachment. Get a grip of yourself! Lol

Boats make it across the Atlantic production or not, blue water capable or not. It seems unrealistic to expect a 20-30k boat to perform or gave the build quality of a 150-300k blue water cruiser. Perspective! These boats have and are being cruised extensively. That reality does not jibe with notion that the boats are unseaworthy in stock condition. Requires enhancement? Maybe probably. Necessary? That's an individual question for a given circumstance.

Lastly, as Smacksman pointed out these are old boats. Of course they have issues at 30-40 years old. Of course they are neglected. Some damaged and covered up. Many problems were not problems until left ignored for a decade or more. Poor design? Maybe but few boats have the design to prevent the issues most of us are encountering.

[Vic K]

Speaking for myself, being an acclaimed sissy sailor and avid ditch runner, I would not hesitate taking my little 27, ' Mary Jo'. from its home port in Houston to the Bahamas. Of course in crossing the Gulf Stream the weather would be have to be very, very good. Having made that crossing a number of times the Gulf Stream has all my respect. FYI: the longest open water passage between Galveston and Venezuela is 160 miles. That being the crossing from Apalachicola to Clearwater, Florida. You can eliminate that run be doing the rim route.

Anyone that wants to take a 27 Albin across any ocean has my blessing. One thing I discovered, offshore sailing is that the scenery never changed once you left the sight of land. To each his own. I prefer putting along at 6kts enjoying a little music and a cool drink without salt water down my neck and spray breaking over the bow while all the furniture and your belongings are rolling around below plus the wife threatening to kill you (if nature doesn't) for getting her in this mess.
She keeps reminding me it's called ' PLEASURE' boating. Like someone once said, they gave up offshore sailboat racing when they discovered their parents were actually married.

Vic