Pilot House Delamination Fixes

[Jay Knoll]

you might want to consider this if you haven't already

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/206-slow-hardener

[Sprig1]

I used 25lb lead ingots to hold it all together had maybe 12 off those plus smaller dive weights and clamps. Pouring would be easier. If you can get it clean.

[Sprig1]

I have no idea on the amount you could pour in. I would think it would heat up if you poured in very much. When I mix up much over a pint it seats up pretty fast. I put my two parts of epoxy in ice water and was doing it in 90 degree heat. It seemed to work.

[Sprig1]

I think it was a week to get cosaboard . I used half inch. You will have to use small pieces since all the bends in front of the pilot house

[Jay Knoll]

Heat up is hardly the word for it, I had a pot of epoxy burst into flame the first summer we moved to Fl, that is when I learned about slow hardener

The ice bath is a good workaround

[Beta Don]

The epoxy I get from www.raka.com is available with both slow and fast hardeners. Since it's hot here for 6 or 8 months of the year, I've always bought the slow. You can mix the slow and fast together in any proportion you like, which can be handy when you want it to set up a bit faster. They also sell a 'non-blush' epoxy, which is well worth the extra few dollars

If you're pouring into 1/4 inch holes drilled through the rotted core (as opposed to filling the entire void with epoxy) each pour won't be that much epoxy. You'll have to pour it full 2 or 3 times though because it will wick into the rotted balsa as it sets up. Keeping the mixed pot sitting in a pan of ice water is good advice - I do that with any mix of more than just a few ounces

Don

[rnummi]

So here's the plan. Finish drilling out balsa mulch, forget about access holes, take it all out. Fill in gap and fair with "halftime", let dry. Purchase "coosa" board, cut to size, coat with, and fill gaps and voids with "layered" "slow" epoxy till even with lower window openings. Scrape and/or drill out balsa from upper window opening to cabin roof. Cut coosa board to approximate dimensions. Coat coosa with epoxy, insert into upper pilot house gaps. Tape coosa into upper pilothouse openings. Drill access openings into pilot house sides as close to "roof" as possible. Fill upper voids w syringe to fill upper voids and gaps. Let dry. Bed newly refinished teak window frames into pilot house w butyl tape.


How's that? Am I missing anything?

[Beta Don]

The coosa board will be a uniform thickness. The voids after you scrape out the balsa coring will leave you with rough sides - The inner and outer skins will have soaked into the balsa a bit and once the core is out, you'll have very rough edges - It will be tough to force the coosa in there . . . . you won't have to worry about taping it to keep it from falling out. I wouldn't worry too much about the core above the window. It's probably not that wet and is probably still bonded. If it's still dry, I think messing with it will be a big step backwards

You can paint the inside of the wall skins with epoxy and paint the outside of the coosa with epoxy and *maybe* force it in there, but it will never be anywhere near as structurally sound as the original end grain balsa coring was - End grain balsa is VERY strong and it makes an excellent bond to the fiberglass skins which are layered over and under it

Personally, I think drilling the holes in the balsa, leaving it in there and pouring in the epoxy will leave you with a stronger, better bonded wall . . . . but, I'll eagerly await your 'experiment' to see how this all works out!

Don

[rnummi]

Well..... Here's what made me think just taking it out would've the expedient solution. Note the snaps. Damn things are everywhere. Snap happy I believe. Anyway, was thinking I've got core leaks from the overhead, core leaks from the snaps, core leaks from the dam spotlight mounted over the Captains station (dumb). The thing's got more skin penetration than..... Well you get the idea. I figure I've got the patient on the operating table... Why not fix it for good. That being said, if the Ole drill and fill accomplishes the same thing....

What say you?

[Sprig1]

Could you hit around the holes with a hammer to see if it's solid if it is just inject epoxy.

[rnummi]

Well, I pulled a few snaps from the side, there was a slim slice of material. Kinda thin washer made out of some seal material. The drill n pour concept I think is going to work. On the bottom, just tape or slap some wax paper and tape the wax paper to base. I pulled all the pilot house base trim so the whole thing slides to and fro. If I used wax paper, I just pull it after cure and put the trim back on then place correctly and drill into the epoxy. As you know it's wasn't attached to deck, just trim. You take a wave onboard and that pilot house is coming right off. Was thinking of getting a piece of wood. Think cross section like a "U" with the skins being the arms of the U. I would make the wood the base, attach and or epoxy it in, then drill downwards thus securing aft pilot house to cockpit sides. Then plug in my coosa board (turns out I only need port side, stbd side is relatively solid. I also tested above pilot house windows, whew, all is well there. Rot under all forward windows about 3-4 inches up from deck. Oddly enough the sills all appeared and were solid.

Here's the wierd part. Universal delamination of fiberglass skins from cores throughout pilot house. Do you just squirt epoxy down the gaps and then clamp? This is all around Windows upper, lower, side. As I said earlier, the only total gut of core was port side pilot house. Rest only delam.

[rnummi]

One more question: do you use git-rot before the epoxy pour?

[Beta Don]

If it was me, I wouldn't bother - Git-Rot is very expensive and the epoxy with the slow hardener will do essentially the same thing - Soak into the rotted wood fibers and strengthen them to be stronger than new wood

If your pilothouse is now just sitting 'loosely' on the cabin top now that you have removed the teak trim around it, I think I would drill into the cabin top 1/2 inch or so when you drill through the core of the pilothouse and the epoxy will bond the pilothouse to the cabin top much more securely than the adhesive Albin used when they built the boat

Don

[rnummi]

Thanks, I'll do that.

[rnummi]

How about the coosa board for the pilot house sides? What size board did you use? 1/4 or 1/2?

Better question since I'm not at the boat... what size was used in the original pilothouse core?

And yet another question, once the core is suctioned out, do you take out the original core skins (leaving the inner and outer fiberglass skins hanging in the breeze) then resin up the coosa board and slide it in? I can see the latter, you just replicate the size of the old core.

If you are leaving the original core skins in there however wouldn't that make it too thick?

I saw where you could order some coosa clone board and it came in 1/4 thickness. Seems to me you would order the 1/4, leave the old skins in place, pour your resin to fill the gaps and voila. The only issue with that would be how to expand the pilot house sides to its original spec thickness. I'm only doing the port side as the others have been drilled as previously discussed.