Pilot House Delamination Fixes

[rnummi]

Anyone have any experience digging out the core from the pilot house? Like below all the windows? The balsa seems fine around the openings. I pulled all the dealer from the front exterior applied vacuum and started sucking up chunks. So, the top appears fine, evidently that's not the case for the bottom.
Q1: how to start... Use a drill w long bit to pierce the balsa and remove/replace?
Q2: replace w what? I saw another post where someone used pegboard and epoxy?
Q3: how about sealing the bottom and filling the whole lower pilot house void w epoxy?

Rick - Virgin Albin Owner.
84 A27FC Bare Necessities
Dunedin FL

[Beta Don]

I think #3 is your best bet

Clean whatever is loose out of the core. Mix some West System (or equivalent) epoxy and add some filler to thicken it a bit, but leave it thin enough to pour into the void. When it sets up, you'll have a waterproof base to work from and the core under the windows will be sealed

I'm beginning to think my boat is the only 27 which doesn't have this problem. It sat under cover in Arizona for about 10 years and then I bought it in 2003 and it's been stored under a roof ever since. My pilothouse doesn't appear to have any rot at all

Don

[Sprig1]

Sounds like fun I did the same thing. Mine didn't leak luckily. I used a milling machine bit that fit in a 1/2 drill went all around the window 5/8 th deep top bottom and sides. Worked great and pretty fast. Then I did what Don said. I did the the front windows to. Worked well took quite a few hours. But it should be fixed for good. A router blade would work to.

[Jay Knoll]

in case you didn't see this, here is what I went thru

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7801

just realized that I never posted pics of the finished project. Something else for the "to do" list!

[JT48348]

#3 is expensive. You will be surprised how much resin it takes to fill a void that size completely.

May I suggest a #3 modified technique.
Clean out only the damaged core. If if its solid but delaminated leave it in. Apply resin or thicken resin to whatever is delaminated and let it set. You may need to clamp or screw the skins to the core to get it solid. Fill your voids with the following:

-coosa board
-composite building foam
-plywood pieces
-Masonite/pegboard

I have used all these at one time or another on various boats and like coosa board best. Butter the fill pieces with thickened epoxy and set them to fill the voids. Once that sets, then use thickened epoxy to seal the edges.

[Beta Don]

I buy my epoxy from http://www.raka.com - I've used them for many years . . . . probably bought 10 gallons or so there

The 6 quart kit is about $100

http://www.raka.com/epoxy_kits.html

6 quarts goes a long way - I used about 2 gallons laminating my hardtop extension . . . . another gallon or so on the swim platform and another gallon on the dink project

Don

[rnummi]

OK, here's the question of the day.... if the top of the core looks good.... how do you determine the damage on the bottom of the pilot house (in order to fill in). I don't see any alternative but to start excavating.....(particularly to fill in w Coosa, plywood pieces, masonite pegboard etc....everything I've read on this board so far indicates that the seals on the A27 leak like a sieve. Applying logic before I dive into the mineshaft, why would anyone put wood back into the void? Yep, I got that you seal the plywood prior to insertion, that being said, when you are in a position to build a better mousetrap, why not build it. If you bite the bullet and pour epoxy back in to the void, will it be strong enough w/o some sort of core material?

[Sprig1]

Below the front pilot house windows was total mulch like something from your garden. I don't think pouring epoxy in there is going to do it. Unless you seal the seam between the pilot house and cabin top and just keep pouring and hope

[Beta Don]

If you bite the bullet and pour epoxy back in to the void, will it be strong enough w/o some sort of core material?

Cured epoxy is much stronger than anything used for coring. Unlike fiberglass resin which cures very quickly in just a few minutes, epoxy cures very slowly which enables it to soak into voids and penetrate rotted wood. If you are concerned about all of the core below the 5 windows in the pilothouse, I would consider getting a 1/4 inch extended drill bit and just drilling holes spaced an inch or so apart through the core from the bottom edge of the window all the way down to the joint between the pilothouse and the deck. When you pour the epoxy into the core at the window level, you'll soak everything below that in epoxy and have a solid, waterproof, permanent repair. It would take 2 or 3 pours, as the first pour will gradually sink as the epoxy soaks into the rotted core

They made kits for repairing rotted out transoms on outboard boats doing it essentially this way. The plywood core of the transom was sandwiched between the inner and outer fiberglass skins. When the wood rotted due to some opening which allowed moisture to enter, the transom became too flimsy to support the motor. Drilling holes at the top and letting epoxy soak into the rotted core gave a strong repair without demoing the transom and rebuilding it from the inside with all new wood - If the epoxy filled rotted core could handle the stresses and strains of supporting an outboard, it would have no problem strengthening the core of something like our pilothouse

A messy job, to be sure, but maybe quicker and easier than trying to replace all of the core material with wood

Don

[rnummi]

That my friend is exactly what I'm going to do. I know with certainty that it's dry (six years worth of air dry). What about the old exterior seal? Scrape, Island Girl Pink undiluted to clean the joint of 5200 residue, then re 5200 the joint? (It was behind the teak facia strip).?? For that matter, as long as I'm rolling, what about the interior joint (between pilot house and dash? I can just imagine saying to myself, wow this epoxy is going down easy (as it runs onto dash). Second trepidation, man I hope I don't drill into deck while excavating pilot house window voids.... I'm old school, stick the drill in there and try and feel the resistance.

[Beta Don]

You would definitely need to tape the joints first - Both inside and outside to ensure the epoxy doesn't find a way out. I think I'd just run a bead of 5200 around the outside, now that you have the teak trim removed

When drilling the core, it wouldn't hurt a bit if you drilled a little way into the deck - That would just strengthen the pilot house to deck joint

Don

[rnummi]

I woke up in the middle of the night and had a terrible thought.... Note the picture. What if the PO just screwed in the canvas cover snaps.... I would have hundreds of tiny leaks into my balsa core......sheesh I'm starting to have nightmares....

[Beta Don]

He did get a little carries away with the dozens of snaps, didn't he? I would bet most boats have a few of those snaps installed. My canvas front window cover is all one piece, covering all 3 windows and there are only 6 snaps total which hold it in place and 2 of those are up under the roof where they don't get wet. The canvas for the side sliding windows is held in place by only 4 snaps on each side and the top 2 are up under the roof coaming

I have bunches of those snaps for my other canvas around the back. Thankfully, the aft cabin top is cored with closed cell foam sprayed in place, so even if a bit of water did get in by the snaps, it wouldn't rot anything

Don

[rnummi]

Thanks... I've read the remove nail tool fill w epoxy.... But this is ridiculous..

[rnummi]

The semi good news after working on the boat all day us that there is a pretty substantial air gap between pilot house and deck on bow. I can actually see the screws holding down the pilot house. The bad news is that I have delamination on all the window openings (confirming my snaps cause leakage theory). I'm going to do what you guys suggested, I'm going to remove core an inch deep around all the window surrounds, I'm then going to drill down into the core every inch and a half or so down to deck surface, then tape it and start pouring epoxy. I'll take pics as I go along. Just finished "snow bowl"ING the entire boat... Holy smokes that stuff really works, off white gel coat back to pristine white. It took off the waterline staining too! Looks like a new boat.