A25 Towing Question

[stxray]

Hi Guys,
I'm trying to determine if I will be able to tow an A25 with my present vehicle, a 2011 Honda Pilot.

The Pilot has a Maximum Total Trailer Weight (assuming 2 occupants) capacity of 4,500 lbs. I would only have 1 occupant so I assume that could be a little higher but let's use 4,500 lbs. to be safe.

My towing plans would probably include a long, multi-state, trip to get her home and then short (10 miles) trips to the boat ramp for Spring launch and Autumn retrieval.

I've looked around this and other sites and haven't been able to get a definitive figure on the A25's total towed weight. Posts where an owner has stated his weight, the combined boat & trailer weight is between 3,500 to 5,300 lbs. with one saying his boat was a whopping 8,500 lbs. Most, however, were under 4,000 lbs.

If 4,000 lbs. is a usable estimate, then I'm thinking I'd be okay using the Pilot. What do you think? Anyone else using a Pilot to haul their A25? Assuming I go forward using the Pilot, are their any modifications you would recommend?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[kerrye]

Boat itself weighs around 3500 lbs so add the weight of the additional stuff in it and the weight of a trailer. Getting to 4500lbs is pretty easy. I'd say you're right at the margin. Infrequent local towing probably ok. Frequent long distance towing and I'd be looking for a higher rating on a tow vehicle. Maybe rent a pickup truck with a higher rating to bring it home.

[stxray]

Great! That sounds doable.
Thanks

[2manyboats]

I think you will be ok. The only real hills you will encounter are on I84 in CT. Allow more stopping distance for the crazies you will find along the way. You'll be surrounded by the most obnoxious drivers in the country, MA; CT; and NY.

Cool this time of year which will be a benefit for the Honda.

I towed mine from TX to FL (real flat) with my VW Toureag and it pulled very good. I didn.t realize the brakes were not working until the second day on the road.

[glk34]

We towed Iron Jack with our Tacoma for 3 yrs. Did some 5 hrs trips to lakes and other provinces. The hills were tough and I did beef up the suspension to handle the weight. Good trailer brakes would be a must with the pilot. The Tacoma had a 5 speed and a V6. I figure load was around 6000lbs total. Short trips should be ok with the pilot but I believe you would be pushing it. We now use a GMC 2500 truck and life is much easier on the road. The Tacoma had to work a lot harder so it was not much better on fuel than the bigger GMC. Our friends use a 2009 Tacoma (more hp than our old 2003) and they have no issues towing their A25.

Chris

[DesertAlbin736]

FWIW, when we first bought our Albin 25 and brought it down to Phoenix from the previous owner's place up in Idaho, an 850 mile trip, we stopped at a truck stop in Flagstaff, AZ and put it on a truck scale. All up weight including the trailer unhitched from the truck plus a 75 lb dinghy on davits and a modest amount of gear (anchors, dock lines, various spares for the engine, and a 1/2 tank of fuel, etc) as measured was 6,850 lbs. And that's with an aluminum trailer.

Here in the West you can't go practically anywhere without encountering long & steep 6% mountain grades somewhere, and many times in ambient temperatures well over 100 degrees in summer. Just going from here to Flasgstaff one climbs from 1,300 feet elevation in Phoenix to 6,500 feet over a distance of 130 miles, including dropping into and climbing out of the Verde Valley in Cottonwood, AZ which is 4,500 feet. We tow with a 2006 3/4T Ram 2500 Cummins diesel (last year for the 5.9L engine without the DPF enhanced emission controls) 4X4 which has 625 ft-lbs torque and over 10,000 lbs towing capacity and gets 11 to 12 MPG pulling the boat. My truck empty weighs 7,000 lbs, so I'm more comfortable having a tow vehicle that weighs as much as the trailer. Plus it rides nice & quiet. Remember, it ain't just about getting that rig rolling, it's also about getting it stopped and you don't want the tail wagging the dog.

[Jeremyvmd]

A few thoughts. I've towed a lot of trailers over the years from small kayak trailers to 12000lb boats, I've seen a lot of dangerous and stupid things done, and I e seen people get hurt or die because of them. I think you are overloading that pilot with the a25. i would bet the average a25 on a trailer is closer to DAs 6800 than 4500. You would want a vehicle with at least a 7000-9000 or so tow rating to tow the boat. With a 4500 tow rating your talking a few jetskis, a small utility trailer or a couple of atvs maybe a 18-20ft skiff, but not a large boat. I'll tell you my 20ft cat (it's a skiff) with a 150hp etec, zero gear and 20 gallons of gas is 3895lb on its aluminum trailer and that's a boat with a 1700lb "dry weight". Even hauling the boat on wet slippery ramp might be hard...even in 4wd, and if your fwd forget it.

The other thing to consider is tongue weight, you would be amazed at how few trailers are property loaded for tongue weight. I've seen them as low as 2%, and as high as 31% of trailer weight. Both are incredibly dangerous, but if your at the high end then traction on your front wheels will be abysmal...

For your safety and all those people around you on the road, rent or borrow a truck when it comes time to move the boat, it's cheap insurance.

[stxray]

Thanks for all the great information. Based on your comments, here's what I'm thinking is the best course of action.

1. Rent a tow vehicle - Given that the A25 would be at the upper limits of my Pilot's towing capacity and perhaps exceed it, why take the chance of damaging my Pilot, crashing boat and car, or killing myself and others. I'll rent (or possibly borrow) a suitable towing vehicle to get her home.

2. Get Her Weighed - Along the route home, seek out a public scale and get a accurate weight.

3. Based on the finding of #2 above, try a short tow around the neighborhood to see if using my Pilot for a short run to the ramp is feasible. If not, repeat #1.

Again, thanks for all the good feedback. Now off to the next issue.

[DesertAlbin736]

The other thing to consider is tongue weight, you would be amazed at how few trailers are property loaded for tongue weight. I've seen them as low as 2%, and as high as 31% of trailer weight. Both are incredibly dangerous, but if your at the high end then traction on your front wheels will be abysmal...

Amen to that! I personally know of two cases where 25 foot sailboats flipped on the highway due to low tongue weight. One was a Catalina 25 being towed by a 1/2 ton Suburban in which the owners had just bought it and did not realize it was not balanced properly, lost control and flipped the first time out on the highway. The boat was totaled in that case, cracking the hull where it landed on its side. The other was an O'Day 25 being towed by a similar 1/2 ton SUV and flipped while crossing the 4,000 feet elevation Chiriaco Summit on I-10, two thirds of the way between Phoenix and Los Angeles on the way to Marina Del Rey for a cruise to Catalina Island. In both cases the tow vehicles suffered damage, and in case of the former the tow vehicle rolled down an embankment. Luckily no one was seriously injured, but it pretty much ruined their whole day. Sometimes it's as simple as making sure most of the gear in the boat is stowed forward. More often it tends to be the case of not enough tongue weight, but in either case the load carrying capacity of the tow vehicle's rear wheels, including the load rating of the tires needs to be taken into account. If your trailer tends to fishtail that's a clue that your tongue weight is too light.

Our previous boat was a Catalina 25 which with the trailer weighed over 8,000 lbs. That was the main reason we got a 3/4 ton diesel 4X4 pickup, as we had taken it to San Diego twice for the summer. There are a number of steep grades on I-8 going to San Diego, including the stretch between El Centro, which is below sea level, and San Diego where you have to cross the coast range mountains that go up to 4,400 feet and back down to sea level in 120 miles. We had a lot of fun with that boat, but the mast raising just got to be too much, hence the search for a pocket trawler that led us to the Albin 25. Our last cruise with the C25 in 2012 before we sold it was a harbor hop from San Diego to L.A. and over to Catalina Island.

[DesertAlbin736]

I would modestly suggest, if long distance trailering is in your future plans, and Lord knows you can take an Albin 25 anywhere your free time allows, checking into something like a Dodge Ram 2500 diesel. Chrysler has even come out with a 1/2 ton diesel since last year. It might seem like a bit of overkill but it can handle towing an A25 with ease over any kind of terrain anywhere in the country, and an A25 would be less than 60% of that trucks towing capacity.
Ford or Chevy diesels might be good too, but in my experience our Dodge truck is by far the best vehicle I've ever owned and is a beast for towing, whether a boat or RV trailer.

[kerrye]

I tow with a 93 GMC 2500 4wd 6.5 diesel. Rated for 10k. Does fine. Lot cheaper than newer diesels. The even older Chevy/GMC 6.2 diesels would work.

[Beta Don]

I towed an O'Day 25 (6500 pounds with the trailer, which is about what your A25 is going to be when you put it on the scales) 2,750 miles from Biloxi to Seattle and then back again with a 3/4 ton Ford and my opinion is . . . . 6500 pounds is way more than any SUV needs to be messing with - A blown trailer tire and you're pretty much off the road, one way or the other. If you're buying an older boat/trailer and intend to tow it several hundred miles home, I would *strongly* suggest that you invest in a new set of trailer tires before you take it anywhere. Old trailer tires are an accident waiting to happen - If they're more than 3 years old (and likely they'll be more than 5 or 6) get a new set, no matter what they *look like*

We own a '93 Dodge with the Cummins diesel and a 5 speed which very seldom gets driven, but is ideal for towing. It has towed a 12,000 pound 5th wheel RV from coast to coast a couple of times and we most recently used it to tow a car on a trailer home from Indianapolis

If you're planning to recreate with a 6500 pound boat, buy yourself an older truck just for that purpose - It will last you just about forever if all you do is tow with it. We paid $4K for the Dodge with 150K on the ticker 15 years ago and it's still going strong

Long trips with heavy trailers, I really like 5th wheel set-ups. Much safer IMO than conventional trailers, plus you can put way more weight on your truck - 20 to 25% is about the norm for a 5th wheel

Don

[Panhdjoe]

As A CDL driver with lots of experince with towing all sorts of stuff I think that what JEREMYVMD posts somthing to think about. The Question that would be best asked is not "can I pull it" but CAN I STOP IT. Often a Vehicle will tow a load OK but not have the brakes and handling for safe operation.
Also all boats weigh considerably more than the manufacturer's stated displacement weight. My Son inlaw operates his family Boat lift busniss and runs into this all the time. Often they weigh thousands of pounds more. Forget the Honda Pilot for towing a 25ft boat.

[DesertAlbin736]

I would *strongly* suggest that you invest in a new set of trailer tires before you take it anywhere. Old trailer tires are an accident waiting to happen - If they're more than 3 years old (and likely they'll be more than 5 or 6) get a new set, no matter what they *look like*

Exactly! Our DPO (Dreaded Previous Owner) told us the trailer tires he had were "new", meaning they still had good tread. I checked the date stamps and they were 10 years old! They got us home, barely, but my first investment was a set of new Load Range E tires for the trailer. And I keep them covered when the trailer is parked to shade them from the brutal Arizona summer sun and make sure they're kept aired up good as well as not let them sit parked in one place for too long.

If you're planning to recreate with a 6500 pound boat, buy yourself an older truck just for that purpose - It will last you just about forever if all you do is tow with it. We paid $4K for the Dodge with 150K on the ticker 15 years ago and it's still going strong

I obviously paid quite a bit more than $4K for our 2006 Dodge in 2011 when it had 78K on the ODO (in diesel speak that's barely broke in) but a heck of a lot less than brand new. It's a crew cab 4X4 AT with all the Laramie bells & whistles, and even now with all our travels has only 110K on it. But new? That would be a $60K truck. I put it in my will that when I die I get buried in it, Viking style. (just kidding on that last).

[Beta Don]

I would *strongly* suggest that you invest in a new set of trailer tires before you take it anywhere. Old trailer tires are an accident waiting to happen - If they're more than 3 years old (and likely they'll be more than 5 or 6) get a new set, no matter what they *look like*

Exactly! Our DPO (Dreaded Previous Owner) told us the trailer tires he had were "new", meaning they still had good tread. I checked the date stamps and they were 10 years old! They got us home, barely, but my first investment was a set of new Load Range E tires for the trailer. And I keep them covered when the trailer is parked to shade them from the brutal Arizona summer sun and make sure they're kept aired up good as well as not let them sit parked in one place for too long.

My only other piece of advice if you're planning to trailer cross country is to only buy a trailer which comes with 16" 6 bolt wheels, so you *can* use load range E tires. Many cheap boat trailers come with 3 axles using 14 or 15 inch wheels with load range C 'special' trailer tires - You'll have many fewer problems with a trailer which uses the 10 ply E rated tires, plus you'll only need 4 of them (and a spare of course). When you blow a single tire on a triple axle trailer with C tires, the remaining two on that side are immediately overloaded and it's not unusual to blow another one before you can get stopped. Then unless you're carrying two spares, you're pretty much disabled

Don