A27 Pilothouse Front Windows

[SkipRocks]

I was just wondering if the next A27 Albin owner that decides to rebuild the front three pilothouse windows from scratch (Left, Center Opening, Right), might be interested in making TWO sets.

[Mark Deeser]

Would sure change the look, trying to picture it in my mind.

[SkipRocks]

Front Pilothouse windows.jpg

Well, as no one seemed to be A) making pilothouse windows for their A27 this summer, or if so, then B) willing to make two sets and send one my way, I decided to make my own. I'd done quite a bit of research, and gotten bids from several vendors both local and national. In the end, I personally could not identify a source that would commit to manufacture a set of pilothouse windows for the A27 for anything south of $3,500 (and up to $9,500). I used the existing glass for the three front windows and Lexan/Plexiglass for the side sliders.

There is an older wooden cruiser in our marina that the owner replaced the pilothouse teak window frames with a recycled plastic material called LumberRock in 2004. After 11 years in the South Florida and or Caribbean sun it looks great and shows no deterioration. Also, his windows don't leak. Granted, the teak window frames on my '85 Albin are 30 years old, but they are both deteriorated and have leaked for years. So I decided to make new window frames out of LumberRock.

As for the finished product, I think they look pretty good. I haven't installed them yet, but they are ready to go back in. I've repaired all the soft spots in the pilothouse walls where the balsa rotted away due to long term leaks. I've also glassed in the window opening so any future water that might enter around the frame will not gain entry between the interior and exterior fiberglass. Note: I also permanently fiber glassed the pilothouse to the main house - no more screws or seams.

I purchased three 2" x 6" x 12' pieces of grey LumberRock with wood grain on one side. The wood grain will show. This was enough for all three front window frames as well as both sliders on the sides. I'm glad I was extra careful removing my frames that were put in with 5200 because other than the center opening window, there wasn't a 90 degree angle and I needed the originals as a template. Port and Starboard front window frames were actually up to a 1/4" off - as are the rough openings.

If you go this route, there are a few things to take into consideration. I learned that all recycled plastic lumber is not created equal. Some is made with wood/organic byproduct mixed in. This will expand/contract with moisture. You need to identify one that has no wood/organic byproducts included (like LumberRock). Also, some plastic lumber is "extruded" - think pressed out under pressure like playdo. This is not considered structural lumber. You want structural grade plastic lumber. It's poured into a mold - and then somehow pressure is used as well. The finished product is similar to Starboard and it cuts like starboard, but I don't think it's as dense as starboard.

[JT48348]

That looks great!

FYI: in my research this summer I received a quote for $1500-1600 for aluminum framed pilothouse Windows, with sliders, tinted glass, you name it from Wynn,Inc. your estimates sound prohibitively high.

But your solution looks fantastic! I can't wait to see how they look and hear how they hold up. Do you have a jig or anything to mitter the pieces? Or was it just cutting and mittering the stock to fit?

Also not to be a buzz kill but Lumberock appears to be a HDPE product similar to King Starboard. Except it has a filler of some sort added. HDPE is very difficult to glue or seal since nothing will stick to it. You may want to read up on gluing or sealing HDPE. There is a technique where you heat the surface to get some of the chemicals it's made of to flash off. Idk if this will apply to Lumberock. I hope not. I know it's true for the Starboard and the knockoff black HDPE sheet I have. It's one if the reasons I gave up on my black HDPE frames--- I felt, no way to seal them to the pilothouse

[SkipRocks]

JT - Here's the scoop as it was explained to me regarding LumberRock. It is an HDPE composite product, but it also has an inorganic mineral filler mixed in. I can't recall what at this stage of the game and have a spec sheet somewhere, but when I spoke to their reps they swore up and down that this allows glues and sealants to stick to it. They didn't sell me on it though, it was the other boat the marina - it's held up well and the sealant is still adhering well. Who knows, but I gave it a shot and I will share what I learn. FYI, I've gone the Starboard route in years past on our sailboat and learned that the hard way. This was easier to work with than Starboard. BTW, I have a quote from Wynn for the five pilothouse windows and it was not for $1500-$1600.

[JT48348]

This is good news. I will be interested to hear how the sealant works. I love these out of the box solutions.

My Wynn estimate came in at approximately $450/per slider and $170 per fixed front window. There was approximately $40-60 difference between the mitered and rounded cut, with rounded being cheaper. In checking my notes, those were not tinted, but the frames were black anodized. I had a detailed breakdown of the cost but I just lost it as I tried to fat finger it into this post. Oh well. Either way a couple grand for Windows is too much for me.

I think your solution is brilliant.

[Jay Knoll]

Great job!

[sail149]

The starboard type products , and there are quite a few now, can be hot welded together and then sanded smooth.
There are plastic fabrication shop around that could to this. The same folk that can weld up plastic fuel tanks etc.
I do work for a place like that who have started making formed permanent replacements for canvas Bimini for sailboats. They have to seam the 1/2" thk sheets as the boats are too big to do in one piece
You can't see the seams. They weld on fittings to fit the original SS frames too.
Warren

[rnummi]

Do you have the address/name for the Wynn guy you spoke with? 2nd Question, Do you have the dimensions for the fronts? I'm guessing you put in the fixed center?

[Beta Don]

I'm guessing you put in the fixed center?

If you look at his pictures, the center window is different from the ones on either side - Pretty sure it's an opening window with a frame around it

Don

[JT48348]

I think it was Bill but might have been Doug. My understanding is they're brothers. My quote was for all fixed ports. Black anodized. The measurements I posted as a graphic. Yes the original center port is opening.

FWIW I didn't order them because to me the expense is too great. My original ports are in decent shape and have cleaned up nicely. Seeing the construction, I would rebuild before I replaced.

[rnummi]

When you indicate a 3 inch arc on the rounded corners..... You would then have to add fiberglass to fill the resulting voids correct?.... Anyone do this and have pics (of the rounded corners)...

[JT48348]

Yes this is correct. One if the reasons I passed on the metal ports was the extra effort. It's not that hard just kind of a pain.

They make straight mittered Windows slightly more expensive that are drop in.

[rnummi]

Hey Warren, any pics of the formed permanent Bimini? Oh yeah, I'm off topic.... So inre the mitered edged aluminum frames: The consensus of the other posts is they are prone to leak. That being said, since I'm about to perform open heart surgery on my balsa cored pilot house, once fully epoxied, no problemo with slight leaks right? Random thought #2.... How is the pilot house attached to the deck? Screws, 5200? When you dug down to the bottom on your post (thanks for the pics)... What did you find? Deck surface? Flat base of pilot house?