Albin 27 FC BECKSON ports & screens

[sail149]

Hmmm
Never seen full sailboat style full stanchions and lifelines on an A27.
The later series 90+ did have a SS pulpit that extended further down the sides.
This probably helped the security as somebody went fwd to attend lines etc.
W

[JT48348]

Yes, someone went through some expense and effort. Three stanchions each side, plus double life lines, and elbow supports & line hooks for the stanchions mid ship for boarding. Brilliant idea. Too bad they didn't through bolt with backing plates.

They just fiberglassed everything below! What is with this idea of fiberglassing backings for deck fittings. Insane! This weekend I start grinding everything off. Deck hardware is coming off.

[sail149]

JT
I think the reason to fiberglass over is to stop leaks. .... Just use butyl tape!
Stanchions may have been done in the factory from new as otherwise the bolts would have gone thru the lining. (extra cleats on my boat were done that way. )
Some of my factory deck fittings have the balsa cut out and fiberglass hard filler replacing it which is a reasonable way to reinforce the fitting .
What did you find under the fittings?
Warren

[JT48348]

Under the stanchions i found plywood blocks very small. The stanchions are one piece pipe with bases. Very nicely done. All welded and capped.some have lateral suports that bolt on. I havent been able to find anything store bought thats similar so they must have spent a pretty penny. They're really very nice. Stanchions used sloted bolts

The pulpits are mounted through the deck. There is an aluminum plate glassed into deck at each base. Then nuts then the whole thing was glassed over. Pulpits used hex bolts.

Deck cleats use panhead bolts and are backed by two 1" stainless flat pieces. Also glassed over

I made it through the aft part of the boat. I have four bases to go on bow pulpit then all the deck fittings will be off the boat. I can cover the boat for winter and switch to wood & plastic work

Im thinking of changing out the all the wood to hdpe (king starboard) and the anchor platform to stainless.

Not sure what to do with the swim platform. Its covered in deck renew. Yes, that horrible stuff that encases ur deck and cracks over time. Not a good scene

[sail149]

Yes I was thinking of changing to HDPE product for hand rails and anchor platform too.
White or fake teak?

W

[JT48348]

Warren: I think I'm going to black hdpe. Based on my new color scheme for the boat, I think the black will be a nice common trim color for the boat. I used black king starboard on the 22' sailboat cockpit I restored. Initially I was reluctant to "loose" any wood, but the simple fact is you can spend time crusing/sailing, or spend time doing brightwork. In my experience, even with Cetol coating, wood needs to be resealed at 6 month intervals. UV stabilized hdpe is so maintenance free, and easy to work with, it just makes sense to get rid of the wood, if low maintenance is the priority.

Now for the exterior trim ring for the ports, using your design, I may go with white hdpe. But for handrails, pilot house window trim, deck fitting raising blocks, etc I think I will go with black.

For the anchor platform, I don't think hdpe by itself is the product, and definitely not fake teak.
I started an achor platform/bowsprit thread here with my plans.

Source for uv stabilized hdpe: in thicknesses 1/8", 1/4", and 3/8" only 8x4' sheets very reasonable. I bought a 1/4" 4x8 black panel for $55 at Menards. Unfortunately you can't order anything thicker, so I am looking at a local plastics dealer for 1/2"-1" thickness.

[JT48348]

Deck hardware removed. After much grinding below decks, the aft and bow pulpits came right off. Everything stowed for winter. I will be working on wood trim, bowsprit, mast, and other details.

I'm almost positive I'm going to take the wood window trim, interior and exterior and make black hdpe trim out of 1/4" thick stock. And probably the hand-holds, deck blocks etc. The wood is nice but an invitation to extra work down the road.

Next summer, I will seal all the leaks, repair the ports, fiberglass the interior for the new head, build the mast step, power-wash & clean interior hull and possibly spray coat interior. To be continued....

[JT48348]

I plan to thru bolt with a new outer trim ring made from 1/4" 'Starboard'.
The bolts will go thru at the location of the existing holes in the Beckson port frame.
The old cabin side holes were filled when replacing the inside wood. And will also get covered by the Bytul tape sealant NOT SILICONE! This will mean the port is thru bolted to a solid cabin side. The liner will not go under the port flange.to soft it might let the port flex and leak!
I have a seperate inner trim ring of 1/4" starboard cut from the outside of the sheet of the outer piece that will hold the liner in place around the port frame, so there will be a sort of double frame but since the inside of the cabin side cannot be left exposed I have to hold the liner on somehow.
I have not finish the first port yet so will have to see how it works .

Warren: how did this work out? I started on my windows last weekend. The aft cabin came along fine. I was able to remove a tiny amount of rotted wood around 1-2 ports where there was water damage, and then fill with thickened epoxy. I also re-glassed the aft cabin windows to make up for the poor factory glass job. Its now rock solid.

The fwd cabin is another story. Probing determined that there was extensive dry rot of the plywood core around virtually all windows, so I removed all the scrapps of wood down to glass and will make up some new plywood coring and glass that around the windows just like you did. The factory half-glass job was completely unacceptable.
Half-glassed? Maybe, but for sure half-assed! The window leakage.headliner condition/cabin top damage should be the number one thing a prospective new owner checks during a survey.

What size thickness did you use for your plywood? I looked at some 1/4" plywood I have I think it may be too thin. I'm think of 1/2" coosa board, and then I can attach and just glass over.

I plan to lay in new core then reglass the the interior, and that should solve the problem of week and leaky windows. I'm going to thrubolt the Beckson ports. I was originally thinking of butyl tape, and I have some on hand for deck fittings, but I can see you're point about the thin outer and inner fiberglass skins for counter sinking. In addition, since I'm using the pvc beadboard as a headliner, I need to get that up under the Beckson port inner ring also. I'm thinking about 3M4200. I think caulking the port rings and thrubolts would make this a one time repair. By the time it fails, it will be someone elses problem.

In addition, I've been thinking about the outer trim ring for the Beckson ports. All my trim rings are in good condition. The only problem is they are drilled for screws, not for thru-bolting. That is, the inner port does not line up with the outer trim ring holes for thru-bolting. Making some new trim rings is a great option, but for the materials and effort, what about this solution: fill the screw holes of the outer trim ring with epoxy, sand smooth, paint the trim rings (since I'm painting exterior of the boat anyway), and then redrill thru-bolt holes that match the inner ports. Basically reusing the trim pieces?

New undrilled trim rings from Beckson PTR-512w(aft cabin) and PTR-714w (fwd cabin) are $22 and $23 each respectively thats $250 just for trim ring?! I'm not liking this. Makes me consider just screwing them back in to avoid the cost of the trim rings.

Pictures to follow

[JT48348]

Photos of core out of cabin top around the ports

[JT48348]

After determining that new port trim rings would be $250 to replace, I decided to try an experiment. I sanded dowm the old trim rings to clean them up, then filled the screw holes with thickened epoxy. Sanded again. I'm now experimenting with painting them. I did one ring with the rustoleum marine paint I am using for the interior/exterior topsides. Looks good, but I may switch froma brush to foam to get a smoother finish. If that paint doesn't work, I may try a Krylon plastic paint. Trim rings appeared to be made of pvc (?)

[JT48348]

Re: Sanding and Painting the Trim Rings

Verdict: Success


Filling the screw holes with thickened epoxy and sanding worked out great. I will be able to drill new holes for thru-bolting, and none will be the wiser.

The end result with the trim rings came out very nice. Although I emailed Beckson and they advised painting with Krylon Plastic Paint, I opted to paint to with the same paint I will be using for the interior and exterior topsides, Rustoleum Marine Topside paint one part polyurethane. The Rustoleum Topside Marine paint is available at your big box stores. It runs about $11-15/quart, which makes it almost half the price of Brightside One part Polyurethane. I love the Brightside, but the cost is just too much. My experiments and research with the Rustoleum have confirmed that almost every bit as good. It flows very nice and settles really well. On wood and the Beckson trim rings I used a primer and then brushed it on. Excellent results.

[JT48348]

Re: Replacing Window Coring with Coosa Board

Verdict: Success

Coosa Board
If you're not familiar with this product, let me introduce you to it and give some first hand feedback. I did a lot of research online and there's some info but it can be spread all around. Some people swear by it, some people complain about the cost. Many old school boat builders and DIYers online have reported some misinformation. Quite a few modern boat builders are using it, but it can be hard to hear about their construction examples. I was a little skeptical and hemmed an hawed about the technology and cost. But it was absolutely well worth it. Alternative brands are AirEx and Penske board.

Coosa Board is a composite material that can be used as a marine plywood substitute and core. It can be used anywhere marine plywood would be used, and it has excellent compression and structural strength. It's 30-40% lighter than plywood. Its made of a foam composite, and it has two layers of fiberglass fabric inside it, plus fibers mixed throughout. It doesn't absorb water, and it won't rot or mildew. The edges don't have to be sealed, and the sides don't need to be glassed or hot coated with resin before fiberglassing. It can be worked with wood working tools, hand tools, routed, drilled whatever. It can actually be painted without fiberglassing at all. Its not terribly porous to the eye, I bet a bare panel would look very good with a light bondo filler and paint.

100_3934.JPG

Probably it's only real downside is the cost. But if you can locate a wholesale plastics supplier, its costs about $200 for a 8x4' piece at 1/2 thickness. Before you complain about the costs, consider the costs of marine plywood. Consider the cost of fiberglass and resin to completely coat and encapsulate the wood. The time to do that before you even install your wood panels, etc.

Now some people say coosa won't hold a screw very well, but I did not see this to be the case. It acts just like soft pine to me. It's also a composite material with fiberglass, so it is messy when cutting and routing. Routing or grinding will vaporize very tiny particles. I wore full protective gear just during cutting to keep the itching down and had absolutely no problems.

100_3937.JPG

I was initially concerned it would be difficult to cut, as several people online reported it dulled their saw blades, etc. But regular hand tools went through this stuff like butter. As I cut the pieces to replace the coring for the fwd cabin ports, I started thinking about all the things I could create with this stuff. Hardtop, pilothouse for a sailboat, battery boxes, generator box, backing plates, you name it. I experimented with a heat gun and it can be heated and then bent around a radius. The 1/2" thickness at full sheet can easily be bent onto a frame to match the camber of the A27 hardtop.

I intend to use it exclusively to build the bathroom bulkheads and shower. I'm a believer. I can't wait to start on the bathroom floor and bulkheads. I think I might need 2 more sheets, and that will give me left overs for other projects. I'm going to use coosa board to also make the stringers for the floor supports for the area I cut out of the head.

100_3942.JPG

I was able to cut coosa board panels to replace the damaged plywood in the fwd cabin. It took less than 48x48". I cut the panels based off rough measurements, then mocked them up with duct tape. Traced the outline of the portholes, retraced them with the trim rings as final guide, and cut it with a jigsaw. It took about 5 hours to cut, fit, and secure the panels. I glued the panels to the cabin sides with 3m 5200, then went back and used my scraps to fill in the voids. I will follow with some thickened epoxy around the portholes, and in the small gaps. Then glass on 1-2 layers of fiberglass cloth.

The most noticeable thing in my entire experience with this stuff is the ease in moving it around. It is significantly lighter than wood. Moving a sheet was like moving pink sheet insulation. But this stuff is much much much tougher than that. Fitting the panels was a breeze because there was no weight to pull away from the tape. I cannot say enough about this material.

[JT48348]

Panels glued in place using 3m 5200. The final layup will be 1-2 layers of fiberglass cloth, wrapped around the curve of the cabin top above and below.

Materials:
less than 48x48" coosa board 1/2" thick if you remove inner fiberglass and plywood
two tubes 3m 5200
24-30 spring clamps

Tips: remove only the plywood coring that's damaged. If its attached to the outer skin, leave it be, but if it crumbles under the gentle poking of a chisel, then its got to be removed down the fiberglass.

My inner fiberglass skin was partially delaminated and so I took it down to the bottom edge of the cabin top. This is clearly a failure of the original Albin manufacturing: not glassing the entire cabin side, securing the windows with screws rather than tru-bolting, and not sealing the core at the portholes. I would venture that every A27 will have some deterioration at the portholes unless this was repaired early properly.

[JT48348]

Glassed in, bulletproof

[don123]

We removed the portlights in the aft cabin for a total remodel - New headliner and some wood trim around the windows and on either side of the aft center window. Almost done and it's looking good

The plywood around the side lights was damp and partially rotted. The portlights on our boat have been replaced with Beckson 'Rain Drain' portlights with the louvered screens by the previous owner. We replaced the aft non opening plastic light with an aluminum one which does open. Picked up a 'display model' for $75. The screen for it cost me an additional $25, but it was a nice upgrade

I covered the boat after removing the portlights and let the damp plywood dry our for about 6 weeks. I soaked all of it thoroughly with 2 coats of epoxy and I filled all of the screw holes with thickened epoxy - Previously, I had several screws which weren't holding anything

After reading about JT's plan to through bolt his portlights, I modified my plans a bit. I used 4 through bolts per light, the widest two on the top and the bottom. I used countersunk #10 stainless hardware which allowed the heads of the bolts to be flush with the outside fiberglass after I countersunk them, so the trim rings cover the bolt heads and to look at the portlights after installation, nothing looks different. I did buy 4 new trim rings for the outside as two of mine were broken during removal

Anyway, all of the screws are holding tight - I installed them with my Dewalt impact screwdriver and none of them stripped out. We removed the trim rings and rebidded them for the 6 portlights in the main cabin - Not going to the trouble to remove those as it doesn't look like we have any leaks now

Don