A27- Hatch Thread

[JT48348]

One of my winter projects is working on the woodwork I disassembled and took off the boat before the snow hit. I've been sanding down all my teak in preparation of refinishing all the bright work. I originally planned to paint everything, and for the exterior, I was originally going to swap the wood over to hdpe. Heresey I know. But to be honest, the teak throughout the boat is copious and is in such good shape once sanded, I've decided to keep most of it. I'm going to refinish all my grab rails, all my cabinet and drawer facings, and of course the bowsprit. The wood is just too nice to cover up. That being said, I hate a lot of wood on a practical boat because it just needs too much attention and can really make things dark & dingy over time.

I'm curious is anyone has any unusual hatch options on their Albin 27. Either un unusual painting or other options that give it a little different look or unitlity.

I like the aft hatch doors: two doors that open on hinges and the aft cabin overhead that closes on them.

The forward hatch to the forward cabin I'm not to keen on. The bi-fold doors that need to be secured with a strap and a snap I can do without. Not sure how it could be made any better.

I'm thinking of varnishing the outer trim pieces of the hatches and painting the in-set pieces gloss white.

If you have another option, pictures would be appreciated.

[Jay Knoll]

JT

I went the paint/varnish route on my refit, check my thread for some pics of the aft cabin. I did the forward cabin doors last month, same treatment and they look great. I haven't posted those pics yet, I'm waiting until I finish the pilothouse redo. I've redone the exterior wood, and I'm painting the fiberglass. All the windows are back in place and watertight! BTW, I used some industrial strength velcro to hold the folding doors together and to the cabin surround, it seems to work well but I haven't been out in any rough conditions yet to see if it breaks free when the boat is taking a beating.

Jay

[DesertAlbin736]

Last summer when we were up in the Pacific NW we'd see these really nice 35 and 40 ft trawlers with their pristine glossy caprails and varnished teak all over the place. I asked one owner what was the secret? He said varnish over a base of three or so coats of epoxy resin. Three coats of epoxy is like six coats of varnish, and you can apply all three in one day, just letting the epoxy cure for 2 or 3 hours until tacky between coats. Mix in very small batches, because you have a limited amount of time before the epoxy "kicks", and any leftover is wasted. Then after the final coat of epoxy is fully cured overnight you need a few coats of conventional varnish over that to protect the epoxy from UV rays. The secret is when you do the epoxy you must completely encapsulate the teak, including undersides of grab rails and all screw holes, because moisture getting past the epoxy and into the wood is your number one enemy. Swab the screw holes with epoxy using a pipe cleaner (you know, those stiff fuzzy bits of wire used for cleaning tobacco pipes) right before installing pieces back onto the boat. Coat screws with mold release wax so they won't get permanently bonded in if you ever want to remove the rails or what ever in the future.

The trick is to use West System 105 resin or equivalent, but instead of regular 5:1 fast 205 or slow 206 hardener, use 207 Special Clear hardener at a 3:1 ratio. To extend the life of the finish on grab rails and teak hatches ever further, Sunbrella covers are a good idea if your boat is stored outside or in a slip.

I had this link to a how-to page of West System's website, but the site must be down for maintenance as I post this because the page seems to be unresponsive at the moment.

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/varnish-over-epoxy/

Warning, this is not a cheap route to go. 105 resin goes for $45 a qt, and 207 hardener is $45 for a 10 oz can, enough for 1 qt of resin at 3:1 mixing ratios. And you need to be working in at least 60 degree temperature, and preferable over 70. Sunbrella fabric for hatch and grab rail covers is not cheap either, but you can save some money by sewing your own with a Sailrite machine or other heavy duty walking foot upholstery machine, as we're planning to do as or next boat project to make new canvas. Don't skimp on buying good UV protected thread either. Though it doesn't look like it in the first photo, existing canvas on our boat is too old and worn to simply modify by adding windows and flaps. We have some friends willing to loan us their Sailrite machine, and the Sailrite folks have excellent how to videos on their website and a DVD that covers making awnings and biminis.

[don123]

Warning, this is not a cheap route to go. 105 resin goes for $45 a qt, and 207 hardener is $45 for a 10 oz can, enough for 1 qt of resin at 3:1 mixing ratios.

I've used Raka epoxies for the past 20 years and it's MUCH cheaper. www.raka.com Their 350 non blushing hardener will give you the same results while saving you a ton of money over West Prices - $110 will get you a 6 quart kit. I've used at least 10 gallons of this stuff over the years in all sorts of conditions with great results. I did use the *very expensive* West System G/flex epoxy on my hardtop project to bond the PVC I used for the curved sections to the rest of the hardtop - Two half quart kits cost me nearly $100 but I guess it was worth it as they worked as advertised. Bonding PVC to wood is no easy task

Don

[don123]

I went the paint/varnish route on my refit, check my thread for some pics of the aft cabin. I did the forward cabin doors last month, same treatment and they look great. BTW, I used some industrial strength velcro to hold the folding doors together and to the cabin surround, it seems to work well but I haven't been out in any rough conditions yet to see if it breaks free when the boat is taking a beating.

I'm using the varnish with the painted center panels also - My panels were too far gone to look good vanished

I did away with the dangerous hardware which holds the aft cabin doors open - Knocked my head on those one too many times. I used round rare earth magnets set flush in the framework for the overhead hatch and then a washer screwed to the back of the door to hold them open. The magnets I bought (eBay) have a recessed hole in the center for a flush screw mounting. They are very strong and I'm using them several other places on the boat

I cut the rear hatch surround down (tapered it) so that the rear section is now almost flush with the ceiling to eliminate one more place I always seemed to be banging my head on . . . . damned glaucoma!

I agree there must be something better for the forward cabin doors - I hate the design but haven't come up with anything better as yet

Don

[JT48348]

Jay & Don: right thats what I'm talking about. It looks really clean to have the inner panel painted. Thats a good pciture Jay. Did you guys varnish first and then paint, or paint and then varnish? With teak, is it necessary to prime before paint?


Don: I thought of the same thing, using strong magnets to keep the doors open for the fwd hatch. That sounds likea great idea. If you are able can you take a picture down the road.

[DesertAlbin736]

Don 123 wrote:
"I've used Raka epoxies for the past 20 years and it's MUCH cheaper."

Interesting! I wish I'd known that before, and if I ever do another big epoxy job in the future I'll keep that in mind. But in my case 1 qt of epoxy was more than enough for my project, since I'm only doing six grab rails, two 20 inch square hatch covers, and two router carved mahogany "La Dolce Vita" name boards that go on the wheel house sides.

Raka is based Fort Pierce, Florida. My half brother Mike lives right there in Fort Pierce, a 3 minute 1.2 mile drive from the Raca facility (a nondescript commercial/industrial building next to double railroad tracks) and has worked at the Pursuit Boats factory, also located in Fort Pierce, for 15 years in their wiring dept. Last time we visited in 2010 he gave us a tour of the Pursuit factory. Now those are some snazzy boats if you like offshore sport fishers powered by big Yamaha outboards.

http://www.pursuitboats.com/

[Jay Knoll]

[quote="JT48348"]Jay & Don: right thats what I'm talking about. It looks really clean to have the inner panel painted. Thats a good pciture Jay. Did you guys varnish first and then paint, or paint and then varnish? With teak, is it necessary to prime before paint?

JT, I varnished the rails/stiles first, rolling a bit of varnish onto the panel so I got as clean an edge as possible between the panel and the rail/stile.

Then I let it sit for a week, out in the sun when possible to make sure the varnish was really cured. I taped it off with auto body fine line tape, primed, sanded, primed, sanded until I was happy with the flatness of the panel and then did three coats of paint. And then there is the other side.

It's a great winter project

Jay

[don123]

The forward hatch to the forward cabin I'm not to keen on. The bi-fold doors that need to be secured with a strap and a snap I can do without. Not sure how it could be made any better.

My early model A27 (one of the first 100 produced) didn't come with a bi-fold door as you describe - I have separate doors, a left and a right which come together in the center, very similar to the doors on the aft cabin passageway

Don

[JT48348]

Do you find that the opening doors get in the way of the galley. How do you like vs the bi-fold, if you've ever seen that?

[don123]

Never seen a bi-fold configuration in person. The port side door does somewhat impede access to the icebox, but we don't use that for it's intended purpose. Also, it blocks easy view of my electrical panel which is behind it when it's open. I really wish I had given some thought to moving the electric panel. I added a ton of wiring to the existing panel when I added the generator transfer switch - I had no idea at the time that other A27's had their panel on the other side of the companionway. Looking back, relocating everything there would have been a great idea

Don