Ice Box Mods

[Jay Knoll]

Hi everyone

Trying to resist going down the slippery slope of installing refrigeration on my A27FC.

I beefed up the insulation on the box when I repaired the galley. but I didn't do anything with the drain. I'm really not happy with it going into the bilge, and I think that the opening in the bottom of the box really degrades the cooling ability. Cold air sinks, goes into the bilge and then draws warm air thru the lid.

So, has anyone opened up the front of the icebox to get at the drain area? On my Crealock 37 the icebox had a hand pump installed in a line in the drain. So cold air/water didn't go into the bilge, and I could pump out the box when the water got too high.

Thinking of trying something like this but don't want to go cutting away without some idea of the space that is behind the bulkhead.

Anyone done something like this?

Thanks for the help

Jay

[tego]

Howdy Jay, Did you ever notice how many sailboat mods we put into our powerboats? I modified my big trawler a lot, incorporating several things that were standard fare in a good sailboat. This little trawler is starting to look like a sailor designed it. I have the same idea about the icebox. I want to plumb in a small hand pump from the icebox drain to my galley sink. Haven't gotten to that on my "to do" list yet though. There is room for a right angle drain under the icebox but I'm not sure how to get to it yet. I've been simply using a rubber plug in the hole to keep the cool air from draining to the bilge. I really don't like dumping the water in my bilge tho. If you figure it out, let us know how it went, and I'll do the same if I get to it first. Ben

[Mark Deeser]

Jay we are thinking about counter top ice maker, only have ice when we want it. We put our ice in gallon size plastic bags, that way water is saved, can be reused for other purposes. Thanks, Mark.

[JT48348]

I want to plumb in a small hand pump from the icebox drain to my galley sink....There is room for a right angle drain under the icebox but I'm not sure how to get to it yet. I've been simply using a rubber plug in the hole to keep the cool air from draining to the bilge. I really don't like dumping the water in my bilge tho. If you figure it out, let us know how it went, and I'll do the same if I get to it first. Ben

I have my galley completely disassembled. Let me check some photos I have and failing that I will try and climb on the boat and take more pictures for everyone. I know I have excellent access and you will see everything you need to know. I can get dimmensions also.

Unfortunately its snowing and -15degrees so bear with me a few days

[tego]

JT, Thanks in advance! I'll be standing by. Ben

[JT48348]

See attached photos of the ice box.

Bad news, I mispoke, there is no access to the bottom of the icebox once you have the entire galley disassembled. I have everything removed from steps to countertop to cabinet assembly. The icebox appears to be part of the pan liner that makes up the galley. Its very similar in construction to the bench seat in front of the head where you sit and use the dinette. If you remove your countertop and the drawer assembly this is what it looks like. On the fwd side (the raw fiberglass in the photos) there appears to be no insulation, although there may be something sandwiched in the fiberglass but it cant be that thick. Maybe 5/8"? The entire icebox is part of the liner and structural.

My thoughts: If you wanted to insulate the box, you could potentially drill holes in the top of the ice box liner, and inject foam something down the sides, assuming there is a void there. On the fwd side (raw fiberglass in photos) you would have to add something to the exterior as insulation. Alternately, add insultation to the interior and sheath the entire box interior in formica or whatever.

To gain access to the drain for the icebox you would need to cut an access port, like one of those 6-8" circular access ports with cover, right above the sole, approximately same height as bottom of the box. You could probably get access to the drain and install a fitting which you then connect a hose to and route it somewhere to drain. Draining will be interesting since you need a thru hull somewhere below the drain. The sink thru hull for the galley appears to be at the same height as the icebox drain. In the photo, the hose coming out the side of the icebox is actually from water tank. I believe it runs through the space immediately under the icebox. If you used a 90 degree fitting on the drain hole, you might be able to route to this thru hull , but not sure if its level to or below the drain point.

The bottom drain hole and the bottom of the icebox appears to be approx. 6-8" above the cabin sole. Based on my disassembly opposite the galley, I believe this is a void that follows the curve of the hull, approx. 6-8" tall and 12"x12". Plenty of room to attach a fitting and route a hose or pump. But someone would need to cut an access point and see what's exactly there.

[tego]

JT, Thanks for the pictures. It looks like I'll have to do some judicious measuring. Like you said, it appears that the icebox is an integral, structural part of the boat. It looks like it's tabbed to the hull. I know there's a void under the icebox that I can fit a right angle drain into but how to get to it? By the way, you don't want the drain to go overboard or your cold air will follow the same path. The best way to do it is to run a drain hose to a hand pump at the galley sink and use that to periodically evacuate the water. This leaves a little water in the hose, trapping the cold air in the box. It appears that the bottom of the box is well below the waterline anyway, so you'll have to pump it up and out some way no matter how we decide to do it. It's too damn cold here to work on it right now, but I'll check it out ASAP. I want a drain before I take off cruising this spring. I hate smelly bilges! Ben

[amber jj]

What about making a small down & up loop in the drain hose like a "P-Trap"under your kitchen sink at home.Just a thought as long as your not in a below freezing climate.It would stop the cold from going out like it stops sewer smell at home from coming up.

[JT48348]

If it was me and I was trying to improve the icebox I would plug the hole and add insulation reducing the space of the icebox. I would use ice packs that could be refrozen or a cold plate. This is the common method for icebox refits for classic plastic sailboats. There would be no need for a drain or hand pump. I think the icebox and drain hole is a nice idea but ill conceived concept.

I'm thinking of turning my space into extra drawers or storage. I'm also going with a 12v refrigerator.

[Jay Knoll]

Thanks for the pics JT.

They helped me make a quick decision; given all the other jobs I've got lined up, this has become a priority "10"; I'll do it when I've got all the other jobs done and I'm bored and need a boat project.

In the meantime I'll stick a cork in it (to coin a phrase ) and use a little Handy Boy pump to drain the accumulated water into the sink.

http://www.amazon.com/Jabsco-33799-0000 ... B000O8F1SE

If I ever decide to do a permanent installation I'll use the pump, in the meantime it can live in the port side pilot house locker.

Jay

[tego]

The drain and pump creates a 'P' trap in the line, and the pumpout is probably the most common way of dealing with water in the icebox in most larger sailboats without refrigeration. I had a chance to check out my icebox today. The bottom is about 1 1/2" thick. It appears that the whole box is cored (1/2" balsa), like the hull. There isn't enough room under the box to install an inspection plate at the bottom for access - it's about 5" deep from the bottom of the box to the inner hull. I think I can bore a 3/4" hole from under the galley sink to the void under the box and fit a flanged drain to it, then seal it to the box bottom. I'll run the hose up to a pump at the galley sink or maybe a foot pump with a discharge up under the outside rail. It looks like a pretty easy job when the weather gets a little better. It looks like the only way to increase efficiency of the insulation is to add foam to the two sides of the box. The side against the galley cabinet front and the side against the hull are totally inaccessible. I guess you could add insulation inside the box, but that would really cut down on the capacity of an already small box. Ben

[Jay Knoll]

Just checking in we are on a little mini cruise in south Florida. I plugged the drain and bought a little fridge fan and a handy boy pump from Amazon. The icebox seems much colder compared to last years cruise and ice isn't melting as fast.. Sadly it is almost impossible to find block ice. the handy boy pump makes it very easy to control the water without having to tear the box apart

[tego]

Jay, I'll probably do the same till I'm done with everything else. It works, it's simple, it can't break-( maybe it'll stay this way). Thanks, Ben

[Vic K]

Has anyone else used the Vitrifrigo 12 volt? I had one in a sailboat and using in my Albin 27 redo. Small unit ( fits under the galley step) with a lot of cold and lo drain. I re insulated the box and cut it down in size. Works good so far. Easy to install. There is a ventilated front plate that's not shown in photo.