A27 Hard Top Modifications

[sail149]

Hi Ben you mention existing side teak....hmm I don't have any.....different years defiantly had variations.
I have a nice aluminum extrusion( not yet mounted), j shape that is made as a drip edge to mount to my top.
There's is also a stick on plastic version too that is much cheaper as shipping 12' pieces was interesting.
I have a similar extrusion inside for the side curtains, takes a bead like a bolt rope in a sail.
I think I would mold in a drip edge into the fiberglass top .it would makes a finger hold too.
The drip line is a hassle, a wider top might not look great and also might hit high posts in a dock which could be ugly. Mind you if I was cruising in a hot area with afternoon rain storms I would be more interested in function over form.
One solution would be if the top of the seat backs were sloped a little outward or has a lip on the inside edge.
Could be added with a teak strip I guess. Maybe a mini curtain coming up from bottom....need to think about that.

Warren

[Mark Deeser]

Great ideas, I see a number of benefits. Sail149 an don, as well as the others, I feel you have a real handle on making it look like factory instillation. What though do you feel would be the effect of windage of this extension on trips in near offshore waters or Gulf Stream crossing? Thanks, Mark

[tego]

Warren, I was talking about the vertical teak attached to the aft end of the existing wheelhouse side. I think most of the boats I looked at originally had teak there. I think a drip rail/trough should run along the full length of the cockpit opening to be completely effective. Maybe make it about 3/4" wide. The upward rounded outside edge would also provide some head-bumping protection. It will still be close to the overall width of the wheelhouse roof, maybe 1-1 1/2' wider overall, but the faired and tapered forward edge of the trough along the aft end of the original top would make it look like the whole is one original piece. That's my plan anyway. It'll be a good winter project, along with installing my Lectrasan system. Then we'll be ready for some longer cruising. I've done a lot of modification already, this past year, to improve/add storage areas, make it more old fart user friendly and clean up everything. I plan on getting a trailer next year so we can make trips to the Chesapeake and the Gulf without having to take the long way. We're on the Little Tenn. River so we can get to just about anywhere inland, on the water. Ben

[sail149]

Ben
You're right I do have the side teak.
For a drip rail I was thinking of something like this on the edge
It's of something I made a while ago
The old part could have an aluminium or plastic drip rail grafted on.

Warren

[tego]

Warren, It looks like you do nice work in glass. Yes, that's about what I'm talking about. I want to put a dip in that type lip so the water runs to the aft end or forward, and out. Ben

[sail149]

Ben
it's hard to see but there is a 1/4+ inch dip or groove to channel water away.
Of course it would get overwhelmed but a down pour..... For that you need house size gutters!
But annoying condensation or showers would be addressed.
It would have to slope slightly but that all depends on the trim of the boat so that may be up to each boat being set up right. Functioning a a small finger hold is important too I think.
Maybe I'll thank another photo it's supposed to rain tonight here.
Warren

[JT48348]

crazy hardtop 01.jpg

Winner 1st Annual Winnebago Design Competition

June 3, 1991, Corpus Christi Sea Times - This year marks the first annual Corpus Christi Nautical Expo and Winnebago Design Competition, and the competition was fierce around Merrit Waterfront. More than 3,000 visitors attended the judging, while more than a 100 designers competed for seven trophies and three cash prizes, the largest prize gathering yet for the metroplex boat exposition.

“We are extremely pleased with the turn out,” announced Dave Patoinic the chairman of the Nautical Expo . “Every year the Expo has more to offer the residents of Corpus Christi, and this year it’s an event partnership with Winnebago Design Concepts.”

Winnebago Design Concepts founder, Paulo DeSousa, seconded Patoinic’s enthusiasm. “We are very excited with the turnout and amazed at all the competitors in the design completion. Who knew there were so many talented boaters and RV owners in Texas!”

Patoinic went on to explain that the Nautical Expo was approached by Winnebago Concepts two years ago, who pitched the idea of a design contest for area RV and boater enthusiasts. Design Concepts proposed a design contest where participants would “seek to design the next great marine or RV concept for recreational enthusiasts.” This year marks the first such design contest, with over 119 entries in the design completion.

DeSousa explained, “We have received submissions ranging from the mundane to the truly creative. People designed portable generators for marine applications, LED lights, synthetic snubber reactors, and Khyber industrial flutter valves. One person proposed diesel repowering via a four stroke outboard! Ridiculous, I know! But it just goes to show people’s creativity.”

When Patoinic was asked about his favorite design, he was quick to respond. “My absolute favorite, and the design contest winner, is the Winnebago Hardtop Conversion. This guy is amazing. I would have never dreamed of it. You put the top of a Winnebago on your boat?! Brilliant!”

The hardtop conversion gathered mixed reviews from visitors. Many had a love-hate relationship with the harsh lines and boxey styling. Some felt the hardtop conversion did not add to the beautiful lines of the Albin 27 Family Cruiser, while others praised the practicality and additional storage.

In the end, five panel judges awarded the designer the first place purse of $1,200. The designer announced that he loved his boat, but admitted he might someday sell her to the right person.

[don123]

For the record, the hardtop on my early '84 model is exactly 3/4 inch thick and is cored with 1/2 inch of end grain balsa. The top fiberglass 'skin' is slightly thicker than the bottom skin, but both combined are only 1/4 inch thick. I cut the back edge of the hardtop off to get a straight line to make it easier to get a seamless junction between the existing top and my extension which is made up of 3 sheets of 1/4 inch mahogany luan plywood. I am adding a 1/4 inch sheet of birch bead board plywood under the extension and the original hardtop, so the extension which is roughly 8' by 8' will be 1 inch thick in total. Yes, an 8 by 8 sheet of 1 inch of ply is pretty heavy, especially when compared to the eggshell of the original hardtop, but I'm planning to set a 250 pound dink on the roof, so I wanted it to be overly strong

By comparison, the aft cabin roof is nearly twice as thick as the hardtop. I bored 1 1/2 inch holes through the top to fit the stainless pipes which hold up the aft end of my extension. My holes were at the very forward, outboard edges of the cabin top and they were solid fiberglass with no core, though I suspect the center portion of the aft cabin probably is cored, likely with 1/2 inch of balsa similar to the hardtop. Compared to the hardtop, the aft cabin top is very strong, likely the designer knew there would be people sitting on it

For anyone wanting to mount anything substantial to the OEM hardtop, I would bore holes larger than your intended fasteners (say 3/4 inch for a 3/8ths bolt) and then fill the holes with epoxy and then drill your smaller hole through the solid epoxy. This will seal the balsa core and also give it some crush protection. I'm building a 3' mast to mount my VHF antenna, anchor light, bow light and a TV antenna and I intend to reinforce the hardtop in this manner so my mounting bolts won't crush the hardtop

I suppose the hardtops on later models may be different, but my impression is that if I were to jump up and down on the center of my OEM hardtop, I could pretty easily cave in the top - It is very flimsy and flexes up and down quite easily, especially after I cut off the curved aft edge

Don

[flavigne]

12-Eclusage Gailhousty.JPG

Hi gang

May I intrude on your conversation as I like what I read and I am in the middle of a third iteration of hardtop on Albin. I did 2 on a 25 and now one on a 27 which I have to modify next year. My project always end up pretty good... the second time around.

The first top on the 25 was in canvas but was pushing the rear portion about half of the rear cabin. That was disapointing. When we made a second on in France, it was quick and dirty but we went all the way back and that was satisfactory. Note the hatches on each side to egress as the top is too low.

So when we got to build the one on the 27, we learned from our mistakes. The structure is simple bolted aluminium. It is not intended to support a person.

In both cases, we went taper in the back. I still have to walk back to the swim platform using the side walkways. Good handhold are important .

On the 25 and to a lesser extent on the 27 there is a need for vertical support of the existing hardtop. With time, the core material weakens.

I have to modify the skin of my hardtop and I will modify the radar arch so that it is only bolted through the top. I will also remove the hatch in the hardtop as it is only a source of leaks, is too high, you have to use a bench to open it and there is no need for extra ventilation

[DesertAlbin736]

For Nick S talking about hardtop for Albin 25: What a coincidence! Wouldn't you know it, I'm knee deep in the process of fabricating my own hardtop to cover the open area over the helm station. I'm not extending it any further than just covering the existing stock opening since I like the idea of the Sunbrella enclosure over the aft portion of the center cockpit. I'm not finished yet because this is a learn as you go process, but so far I've built a one-off mold out of lumber and Masonite, using 1/2 styrofoam insulation material as a pattern, and laid up the panel in the following order going into the mold, with the first layer being the top side and the last layer being the underside: 1) Gel coat 2) fiberglass cloth (for smooth outer skin) 3)1.5 oz chopped strand mat 4) 1st layer of 1/8" diviny cell foam 3) 2nd layer of mat 4) 2nd layer of foam 5) 3rd layer of mat 6) 3rd layer of foam 7) final layer of mat. The bottom side is yet to be finished with waxed gel coat. Final thickness is 3/4". Incorporated two 18 x 18 hatch openings which I've yet to start building teak hatches for. This is my first attempt at this sort of thing. I used just over two gallons of isothalic polyester resin. Mistakes made: should have laid on the intial layer of gel coat a little thicker, since there are some thin spots, so now I'll have to add another coat of waxed gel coat on the top side. A few air pockets here and there that had to be ground out and filled in with epoxy putty. Luckily I live in sunny Arizona and the outside afternoon temps are still in the low 70s so it's still possible to work with fiberglass in an unheated garage.

So here are a few photos

[DesertAlbin736]

A25 hard top continued:

And now it's on to making the hatch covers. I bought some straight 4/4 pieces of Iroko (aka "African teak", although Iroko is not true teak, but it'll do) boards for the frames. I'll rip them down to 2" width, as the hatch rims are raised 1-1/2 inches, rout inset grooves for the cover panels and finish them as needed with a power jointer and belt sander. I have some marine grade 3/8" Teak veneer okoume plywood leftover from a sailboat companionway project I did some years ago. You know, that stuff that costs almost $200 a sheet with shipping. I'm thinking of cutting shallow 1/8 wide kerf grooves into the plywood and filling them with black caulk to simulate strips of teak. Also, Phoenix being a large metro area, I found a plastics shop that gave me a remnant piece of 1/4" clear acrylic plexi for free to use as a small window in the center of the hatches. All to be finished with varnish over layer of clear epoxy resin. If all goes well it'll turn out looking something like this picture pirated off the web.

[don123]

Beautiful work and excellent photos!

I too have been working for the past couple weeks on the hardtop extension for my A27. Sadly, mine is not nearly as high tech as yours

My extension is 8 feet long and 7 feet wide and matches and follows the lines of the existing hardtop. The aft end is supported by a pair of pipes I've glassed and bolted in holes drilled on the aft cabin top. The port side pipe is also the support for my gantry which will be used to raise my 8' fiberglass dink with 5 HP 4 stroke up onto the hardtop

My top is 1 inch thick and consists of 1/2 inch of foam layered between a pair of 1/4 inch plywood panels laid up with slow curing epoxy resin - Yes, the 75 degree December temps here have extended the outdoor working time

Hopefully I'll have something worthy of taking a picture of in the next couple weeks

BTW - I bought my A27 from a guy in north Phoenix, not far from where you live. He usually kept it in a marina near the San Diego airport and flew in wherever they wanted to go boating, but he had it parked behind his house when I got it

Don

[DesertAlbin736]

Oh, and why am I making this hard top? Well, a previous owner, one prior to the guy I bought the boat from, had made a "pop up" hardtop out of 1/4 thick white translucent plexi. It was hinged on the aft edge and could be opened about 10 inches for ventilation, held open by spring props, as shown circled in red in this photo. But when closed it was only held shut by a pair of hatch latches, one in each forward corner and a pair of smaller clip latches, one in each aft corner. Common weather stripping sealed the opening, but it was never completely water tight and would leak small amounts during rain storms. It was OK as it was, except for one minor problem. When trailering at highway speeds those latches weren't strong enough to keep the wind from popping the top open, no matter how tight the latches were dogged down. The solution was to jerry rig tie down ropes across the hand rails. So every time the boat was trailered, which we do all the time, you had to remember to tie down the top.

Well, one day a few weeks ago we had the boat out on the local lake and on the way back to where we store the boat I neglected to use the tie down ropes, thinking it was only a short drive at speeds 55 MPH or lower. Of course no sooner did we get out on the highway did the wind catch the top and slam it open. Only this time it broke into three pieces and was toast.

So this new top will be attached using 4200 adhesive sealant (the removable kind) and through bolted. The 18 X 18 opening hatches will each have two latches and telescoping prop rods.

[DesertAlbin736]

Don123,

I thought of using plywood, but my top has quite a bit of curvature, about 3 inches higher in the center than at the sides over a 67 inch width. Mat and foam seemed to be the way to go. After all, this is not intended to be walked on. I did use plywood backing for where the hatch hinges will go and for corners of a solar panel that will go in the center.

Here's my go-to guy for fiberglass supplies

http://www.stickystuffsales.com/

[DesertAlbin736]

Here's another view of my first test fit of the hard top, this one looking forward from aft. Still had some PVA on it from the mold