Albin 27 FC BECKSON ports & screens

[JT48348]

JohnVB's excellent A27-Headliner Thread here. He has several photos in a pdf file on the thread.


Has anyone actually thru-bolted their ports?

The outter trim ring does not align with the holes from the interior. Hard to tell from website, but it looks like the trim ring is undrilled from the manufacturer which means I need to order all new trim rings in order to thru-bolt?

[tego]

JT,You don't actually thru-bolt the outer trim ring to the assembly. If you want to thru-bolt the inner assembly of the portlite to the hull, all you have to do is place the port in the opening and drill thru the cabin wall from the inside, go outside and countersink the holes so your screw heads will be flush with the outer cabin wall. You can use washers inside followed by acorn nuts to dress it up a little. Then go outside and lay a 1/4 " bead of whichever caulk you decide on, around the crack where the port comes thru the cabin wall. Push that caulk into the crack with your finger as best you can. Then lay another same size bead on top of the one you just put down. Put another bead around the outer edge of the trim ring and press the trim ring onto the throat of the port so you get squeeze-out all around the trim ring. Don't forget to put a spot of caulk on each of your thru-bolts when you put them in. I've done this on many larger yachts and never had a complaint. I just used the original tapping screws on mine when I re-bedded them recently. I didn't have any rot at all around my ports. Guess I had a better carpenter put mine in at the factory. I did mine strictly for PM after 27 years. Ben

[sail149]

Hi
So thru bolting to a solid cabin side is highly recommended by Beckson.
As was said the trim ring is not for thru bolting. It's not strong enough.
But fiberglass side is very thin for a decent countersink and even after repairing and replacing the PlyWood,
with real marine grade ply in my case,
I plan to thru bolt with a new outer trim ring made from 1/4" 'Starboard'.
The bolts will go thru at the location of the existing holes in the Beckson port frame.
The old cabin side holes were filled when replacing the inside wood. And will also get covered by the Bytul tape sealant NOT SILICONE!
This will mean the port is thru bolted to a solid cabin side. The liner will not go under the port flange.to soft it might let the port flex and leak!
I have a seperate inner trim ring of 1/4" starboard cut from the outside of the sheet of the outer piece that will hold the liner in place around the port frame, so there will be a sort of double frame but since the inside of the cabin side cannot be left exposed I have to hold the liner on somehow.
I have not finish the first port yet so will have to see how it works .
Oh I had the 'Starboard, rings cut by water jet. I have a local shop that does that for me for other projects.

If I think it might work I might glue a sheet of Formica to the cabin side and have it under the flange of the port if I can figure out what to do further down and under the side deck. Which I fixed seperatly.

I welcome suggestions or criticisms , but I will thru bolt as anything soft or flexible is asking for trouble later 'up the creek'
Warren

[sail149]

Hi
Thought I would say what I did under the side deck.....port side.
The woven roving fiberglass was not exactly well bonded to the balsa core under the side deck.
Which means the structure is highly compromised.
So I could re fiberglass the side and under the side decks but that's a really ugly job fiberglassing upside down!
So ...... Since the balsa was completely dry from having a year or so to dry out I put layers of 2" wide blue tape over the whole surface to seal it off then pressed some wood up against the tape to hold the glass fairly close to the balsa core.
I then poured polyester fiberglass resin in behind the glass up by the windows and let it run down and under the side decks. Kept pouring Until it wouldn't take any more.......
After it cured I pulled the tape off and I have a fairly smooth surface that is completely solid.......not as strong as a proper fiberglass job..... But a whole lot better than was there before.... Might be smooth enough to glue a liner on to instead or staples etc? Not sure yet....
Warren

[JT48348]

Yes this is good stuff. Warren, when you say "liner" do you mean headliner? Headliner or ceiling would be whatever you put along the bulkhead around the ports? This would be where the old vinyl backed foam went?

I am considering your thru-bolt method with an inner trim ring also of hdpe (king starboard). I plan to use either sintrex pvc board or pvc beadboard to do the headliner areas around the ports.

[sail149]

JT
Yes I mean the vinyl head liner that is part of the liner around the windows and under the deck.etc.
I was thinking with new wood I could use thin Formica on the cabin sides only.
The transition to soft liner has to be thought out though.
I am trying to reuse the original liner.
What is you liner plan? With all the roughness a glue on option does not seem like the way to go.

I was going the thru bolt thru the factory holes in the Beckson ports and have a new king starboard ring on the outside....you mentioned a ring on the inner?.. Beckson have bolts too. http://www.beckson.com/bb.html
But surprisingly they show them going thru the outer trim ring as an option.
Warren

[sail149]

JT
I like the idea of the PVC foam board
I had forgotten about that , it could be put on the cabin sides and then the port installed over the top for a cleaner look.
Just need to think more about the transition to the rest of the liner.
We used to use Kydex in the aircraft industry as it's fireproof...... But still gives of toxic fumes I think
Warren

[JT48348]

My original vinyl and foam headliner was completely moldy, stretched, torn, and unserviceable. I threw it away and am starting from scratch with paper/cardboard patterns if need be.

Regarding the hdpe trim: I was thinking of an inner "spacer" or trim ring to prevent the port from crushing the headliner when installed and tightened. But its not necessarily now. I mistakenly thought the pvc I was going to use was corregated or soft foam. I re-read your post. So you plan to use a home made hdpe trim ring as the exterior trim ring, which you will thrubolt through. I like that idea. I would be interested to hear how you finished out the trim piece. What size thickness board? Did you use a router bit to turn down the edges? And you are positive about butyl tape? I'm not really familiar with it. Where do you get it?

Yesterday I picked up some pvc wainscoating from a big box store. I'm a ways off from doing the headliner, but trying to plan everything out--so this was an experiment. They make it in 3' and 8' lengths. Its basically panels, approxitely 6-8" wide. You put the panels together using tongue and groove. This makes assembly & fitting very easy. Instead of a giant panel cut to size, you have individual planks, cut to size one at at time. Later, when you need to access wiring, etc, you remove only up to the planks you need. The pvc paneling is not corregated or foam constuction, but solid pvc approx 1/4" or less. A photo is attached. It has a wide pattern on one side (4"+) or thin pattern on the other side (1 1/2-2"). Both are very nautical. $21 for a 3ft box, contains 6 planks; $25 for the 8' box also with 3-4 planks.

I used a heatgun last night and gently heated a pvc plank, and then bent it around a 90 degree radius widthwise, no issues. You have to make sure the plank is heated and only bend it when its warm. As soon as it cools, if you try and bend it will break.

My plan is to epoxy in some wood strips as anchor points on the bulkhead. This will create space for reflextix & thin eps insulation. On the areas with the windows, I will install the thin pattern pvc planking, starting with the radius of the window area; bend the plank around the curve of the coach house. The lines of the pattern will be horizontal, following the lines of the boat fore and aft. Then put in additional planks, working my way up to the ceiling and under the bulkhead, with cutouts for the ports. On the ceiling I may go from thin pattern to wide, but not sure how this will work. The beadboard lines have to line up & not look to busy. If a pattern on the ceiling is too annoying , then I will put 1/4" thick or less sintrex pvc board on the ceiling in two panels (port and starboard). I will end up with a smooth white finish on the ceiling, and a nice nautical beadboard pattern on the window bulkheads, down and under the bulkhead till it joins with the pan liner. I will use pvc 1/4" molding or whatever to cover the joints, w/ stainless screws to hold it in place. Here's some links, done by others. The last link is the one that sold me:

http://westsail.info/index.php?action=p ... ad_id=1003
http://resurrectionofvivace.blogspot.co ... chive.html
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55 ... 68759.html

[sail149]

Very
Interesting , thanks for long reply,
Yes I will 1/8 round off the edges of the outer 1/4" ring.( but not installed yet).
But another option is to use the raised or flat hd barrel bolts from Beckson
if raised bolts the back of the trim ring could be relieved to hide them but if Beckson show bolts thru their trim ring maybe that's best.
The rigid PVC liner options could work in the aft cabin but the fwd cabin has a lot more shapes to cover up
But I'm sure you can see that already.
Interesting link and photos
The finishing of the ends and corners need study.

Re butyl tape. Read here , long winded but this should convince you over any other sealant.
I have used butyl that is still soft and sticky 20 years later, I still have the roll I used then. Still good.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebe ... are&page=1
THey sell the product too
Note: it is very thick so you cannot tighten it in one go you should tighten over time.
Read the full article, I will bed everything with it , the hand rail and window leaks caused a lot of wood damage and mold issues .
Warren

[JT48348]

Headliner in the fwd cabin was the worst!. Difficult to remove at the aft bulkhead and the anchor locker. I never spent so long working on two stuborn pieces caught between the fwd anchor locker bulkhead and the top deck. But finally it was done.

100_3766.JPG

I have similar delamination at the cabin sides where the ports are by the galley. I may use your penetrating epoxy fix, Warren. I also studied the lines of the fwd cabin. In actuality, there's not too many complex curves, so flat panel pvc or the wainscoating should work well. The trim will be the trick, finding something that covers my mistakes.

Couple things I found behind the bulkheads and the headliner, which other owners may want to know:
-mold and extensive moisture due to the headliner foam
-extensive mud dobber an wasp nests, behind aft head bulkhead, handing locker, and aft A/C panel
-most deck fittings are through bolted, but Albin glassed over the nuts and bolts, and appears no backing plates
-extensive moisture and rot at the aft bulkhead by the sink, which also at the A/C master panel
-rot at the countertop, by aft bulkhead
-various wire runs screwed into the fiberglass top deck from below (what were they thinking)
-no backing plate on the anchor platform/bow pulpit, or the front tow eye hook, or the cleats??!
-sides of cabin only glassed 1/2 way up, and showing delamination if not rot from port moisture, this is a structural item that appears to be due to way they made the boat, and I would think needs to checked or fixed in each boat.
If they had just glassed everything, it would have solved soo many problems

[sail149]

JT
I'm sure you realized the liner was put in the deck before it was joined to the hull making removing the liner very hard and hence no tabing of top of bulkheads to deck as the liner was already in place.
You certainly have done a complete gut job......
My glass looks rougher under the liner.....Monday boat I guess
The glassed over bolts for fittings , handrails still leak. And tightening or removing the hand rails etc is a real challenge
I had to break 4 of the 6 bolts on the port forward hand rail just to get it off.
I will remount differently.
Thanks
Warren

[sail149]

JT
Re rotted wood around windows.
I have removed the wood completely on mine in the aft cabin it was just powdery rotten wood.
I replaced with new marine ply (BS1088). Glued on with lots of 3m5200 the the thin fiberglass skin.
This will be the last time the cabin sides get repaired!
I feel the ports must be leak proof before going any further.
The solid sides will allow thru bolting of the ports. I will not use the inner and outer screws used by Albin.....it was a quick cheap system that did not hold up to the test of time ( but it did get a lot of boat out there for us to fix up ).
The hull to deck joint also has the be checked and fixed too.......
Warren

[JT48348]

Warren: your cabin tops look alot worse than mine, I think. I am thinking about trying CPES and putting penetrating expoxy in a few key areas and see what happens. Failing that I will remove the plywood and do soemthing similar to what you did.

I am also debating grinding off all the fiberglass on the throughbolts etc, so I can rebed everything once and for all, and have access for the future. Seems like the only prudent option.

[sail149]

JT
Yes I think I Have much worse cabin sides. I think You could hollow out the wood only from Back side where the thru bolts will go.( with a hole saw part way thru or counterbore.
Fill with epoxy and grind smooth , then drill thru and you would have a solid backing for the bolts.

For the thru mounting I agree with you complete rebed.
I was thinking of using SS tee nuts on underside so I could tighten the fitting a little from top as required as the butyl will squeeze out for a while. That way the lining would not have to be easily removed. Complete replacement would also be possible from the top if I secured the TEE nuts carefully . Even better would be SS back plated threaded for each fitting but that even more work!
Warren

[JT48348]

I have a full set of stanchions and life lines already installed. Probably eebed that too. Anyone else have lifelines?