Re-power recommendations

[djblackwood]

It may be time for us to retire the Lehman 4D61 in our Albin 27FC. Any recommendations for a replacement? We're quite happy cruising at 6.5 kts and don't need a lot of speed. Fuel consumption though is a very important factor, as is the limited space in the engine compartment. Thanks.

[JFOkie]

I have a Nissan 78hp and love it.

[JT48348]

I have thought about a single Honda 4 stroke 30-50hp mounted on the transom. The modern four stroke engines are very fuel efficient and reliable. Since the hull speed is only 6 knots, it seems a simple solution. Being mounted on the stern, the engine could be raised out of the water when not in use. It could be fixed mounted, but better yet, with steerage. This seems like a $6-8k repower option.

Removing engine creates space for tankage, and plenty of storage.

[denchen]

I have a 1800 diesel in my Albin 25 that is rated at 37 HP at 2500revs. At 1500 revs she does about 7 knots all day and uses just under a gallon every 2 hours.

[don123]

I'm in the process of putting a Yanmar 4JH3-HTE 100 HP turbo/intercooled diesel in place of my old 4D61. I should get slightly better fuel economy because this engine is more fuel efficient than the old one and also because I'm using a larger, more efficient prop. One other plus is that I will be able to run 12 or 13 knots if needed in an emergency. Any 4 cylinder Yanmar will fit in the same space as your old engine

On the other side of the 'argument' is the fact that a repower like mine is very expensive, even if you do all the work yourself. I bought the engine completely remanufactured by Yanmar for $10K with a new transmission and new instrument panel but even doing the work myself, this 'project' is likely to be in the $15K range by the time I'm done - I could have done this with a brand new engine for about $10K more

I doubt any gasoline outboard would even come close to the fuel economy of your 4D61, 4 stroke or not - You would be spinning a much smaller, less efficient prop with the outboard. I'll bet you'd be closer to 1 gallon per hour at 6 knots, where your 4D61 could do the same with half a gallon per hour - Not to mention that I personally wouldn't care to haul around 100 gallons of gasoline. I suppose it's safe enough, but given the choice, I would always opt for diesel power

Don

[JT48348]

The reason I mention the outboard is they are used in the Nimble boats. And someone used a Honda for a Hankinsons True Grit. Their reported fuel rate is not too bad. I had a 50hp Honda on a 14ft Rib in the Caribbean and it was a dream. The engine purchased with controlls was like $6500.

I carry gas for my inflatable outboard, and probably for a Honda generator, so a gas engine would be a logical extension, no? The generator could be fueled by the same tank. The engine can be raised out of the water. The prop is not an issue as per the info below.

Maybe the transom strength or the rudder fwd the prop is an issue? But if the honda was steerable....

Hankinson True Grit
http://www.egyptian.net/~raymacke/TG/TG01.html
Burn rate
http://www.egyptian.net/~raymacke/TG/Impress.html

[djblackwood]

Given the choice I would also opt for diesel over gasoline any day. It was one of the prime reasons for choosing the Albin in the first place. I also use the swim platform and wouldn't want an outboard motor in its place. The cost of repowering is an issue - is it worth the investment in a 30-year old boat? The only other option at this stage would be to give up boating altogether. Parts for the Peugeot Lehman diesels are very hard to come by and I'm not sure I have the skills or expertise to rebuild one myself.

[DesertAlbin736]

Amen to diesel vs gas. The only thing I'd say to Don123's post about Yanmar is that Yanmars are great engines, as is the 1986 24 HP 3GM30F in La Dolce Vita. But you won't be happy if you ever need parts. Scratch that 'if' and substitute 'when'. First off, Yanmar has this draconian policy when it comes to parts. A)You can only buy from a dealer, and B)dealers can only sell within their own territory, no internet shopping for bargains, and C)oh so expensive. Here in Arizona there are only two authorized to sell customers in AZ, one 250 miles away up in Page up by Lake Powell, and one 130 miles away in Tucson. None in the Phoenix area where we live. For example, on our recent 40 day cruise through the San Juan Islands of Washington and the Gulf Islands of BC we had a raw water pump fail. Thankfully I had looked up and printed out the contact info on all the nearest Yanmar dealers up there. Wasn't just a simple case of replacing an impeller, since we do carry spares. No, several impeller vanes had broken off and jammed the pump, and the pulley destroyed itself and scored the pump shaft. So the whole pump was toast. Partly I think the failure was due to the pump having a hard time priming itself when the boat is first put in the water after being on the trailer. The location of the pump in this installation is such that the raw water intake hose has to be routed up and over the engine mount, creating a loop above the water line. We have to disconnect the line from the strainer back in the aft bilge and use a funnel to pour water in hopes that the pump will pick up, which it does but sometimes takes several tries.

Anyway, after the nearest source, West Sound Marina on Orcas, got us the wrong pump, we finally had to make our way back to Tri-County Engine in Bellingham by leaving our boat on a state park mooring in Blind Bay and take the ferry from Shaw Island back to Anacortes and rent a car to drive up to Bellingham, since there is no ferry service in and out of Bellingham. Thank goodness we had our dinghy to get back and forth from the mooring. $539 later for the part and $55 in car rental and gas, plus walk on ferry passage, not to mention two days lost schlepping back and forth after West Sound got us the wrong pump, we had our new pump. The raw water pump on a fresh water cooled 3GM30 is a simple bolt on affair, bronze casting, pulley, and bracket. Can't imagine this would take more than $100 to manufacture at the most. But then when you need it and don't have it, they got you by the short hairs. $200 I could understand, maybe even $300. But $500+ ?

[AKDW]

I would avoid an outboard because moving that weigh aft and and hanging on the stern will completely rebalance the trim.

[JT48348]

I would avoid an outboard because moving that weigh aft and and hanging on the stern will completely rebalance the trim.

Trim? No. Ballast? maybe
But not necessarily. You could increase your tankage (fuel, water, holding) where the engine used to be. Lots of good stuff could go into that space and the trim would not be affected.
The old engine is approx. 500 lbs.
The new engine is 230-250 lbs on the transom.

That's like a big gorilla like me standing on your swim platform.

[don123]

I don't think the weight transfer would be a big problem - The big problem will be what it costs you to move the boat. Where the old diesel can easily do 6 knots at reasonable RPM's with maybe 1/2 gallon per hour of fuel consumption, the 50 HP outboard is going to be running nearly flat out to do the same thing and it may be using 2 gallons per hour or more to do the same speeds. A Honda 50 four stroke can use as much as 4.5 GPH depending on the load - No way you could make the old 4D61 (or any modern small diesel) use that amount of fuel

Don

[george and ellen]

we have a 1970 (not 1971 as noted in our profile) albin 25. the original albin motor was ruined when water infested the entire drive train unbeknownst to us during winter storage. we put a yanmar 20 horse in some twenty years ago and she still runs fine. we have some harmonic convergence issues at around 1800 rpm (our favorite cruising speed), so we need to cruise at either 1750 rpm or 1900+ rpm. at or below 2100 rpm she uses about 1/3 gallon of fuel per hour. at 1750 she uses about .26 gallons per hour. true sipping. speed at 2100 rpm is about 6 knots or so.

[JT48348]

I don't think the weight transfer would be a big problem - The big problem will be what it costs you to move the boat. Where the old diesel can easily do 6 knots at reasonable RPM's with maybe 1/2 gallon per hour of fuel consumption, the 50 HP outboard is going to be running nearly flat out to do the same thing and it may be using 2 gallons per hour or more to do the same speeds. A Honda 50 four stroke can use as much as 4.5 GPH depending on the load - No way you could make the old 4D61 (or any modern small diesel) use that amount of fuel

Don

Respectfully, I dont think thats accurate. If you read what other people are reporting about modern 4strokes properly pitched. We are talking about hull speed on a displacement hull of 6knots. What u are describing was accurate in the past but i think its becoming less and less the case.Gas won't be as efficient as diesel of course. But if you look at the numbers it's not bad and would work in this application very well. Its been done with success before: Nimble Wander 32, Nimble Kodiak 26, Hardy 20 boats, even C-dory and Rosborough 246. We're talking displacement speed cruising. It fits an Albin 27 well.

Check out the burn info below from the Hankinson True Grit. A new gas outboard repower could be 1/3-1/2 the cost of a modern inboard diesel. Thats a big deal. Combined with the advantages of being able to raise the motor out of the water, ease of maintenance repair, increased tankage and storage, etc.

[don123]

The Hankinson draws only 16 inches of water and weighs a ton less than an A-27, so his fuel economy chart is not representative of what the same engine would do on an A-27 - Your chart shows a 60 HP outboard pushing that hull to 12.5 mph, which I can *guarantee* you will never happen with that engine on an A-27. I would BET you that his 3870 RPM at 1.5 GPH will get you more like 5 or 6 MPH on an A-27 and not the 8.7 MPH that he reports with his smaller, lighter, more shallow draft hull

A close friend of mine owned a Rossborough 246 pocket trawler for several years and I made a few trips with him and I can assure you the fuel economy was never anything to rave about - He was always passing the hat when he went to the fuel dock. Despite the fact that it is smaller and lighter than an A-27 and has a very efficient hull, 1.8 GPH at 6.5 knots on calm water was the best he ever got and it gets much worse when you try going any faster. The Rossborough comes with a 120 gallon fuel tank and for good reason. He sold the boat largely because he couldn't afford to run it

The difference in fuel economy between an inboard diesel and a gasoline outboard is mostly due to the propulsion system and not the fuels - Granted, there will always be an economy advantage to using diesel over gasoline, but that's small potatoes when compared to the difference in how the power gets coupled to the water

For non-planning boats running at or below hull speed, the best economy will always be had by turning a large propeller slowly vs turning small propeller faster, which is what outboards do best. True, you can buy a 'workboat' version of most small outboards (the 10 hp 'kicker' outboards used on many small sailboats is a good example) but you are still limited by the available gear rations and the propeller size which can be fitted to any outboard. Large, slow vessels don't use large, slow turning propellers for no reason - They do it because smaller, faster turning propellers give lousy fuel economy

You are correct that outboard power is 1/2 or less of what an equivalent power inboard diesel would cost - Albin opted to spend the extra to install diesels in all of these boats, so there must be at least one very good reason. That reason is fuel economy. Otherwise, they could have either sold the boats much cheaper (and probably sold lots more of them) or made a lot more money on every one they sold by going with the cheaper outboard power

Get back with us after you get your 50 hp outboard fitted so you can give us some real world fuel usage numbers . . . . which will easily be double or triple what your old inboard diesel was using. You mention a weight savings using outboard power, but that will largely be negated when you find you need to add a second 50 gallon fuel tank to power your thirsty new outboard

Don

[JT48348]

Don: hard to argue with your logic.

I will BET you the price of the Honda 60.

If it runs like I expect (which is not double or tripple) you pay for my engine.

If not I will proudly admitt that you...............were...................right.