Shaft seal

[Denis]

Can anyone out there help with an explanation? I have a 1994, 28' TE with a Peninsular engine.
Last weekend while I was putting in a new salt water wash down pump, I noticed a water line running from the oil cooler down to the area of the propeller shaft. I have wanted to tighten the nuts on my shaft seal since last year because I felt that it leaked a little too much water during operation. I was fairly confident that it was your standard cutless bearing that was ment to drip during operation, does this water line show that I have a dripless shaft seal that is leaking? I would suppose that is a bad thing. If that is the case do I now have to pull out to change the seal or is it ok to drip during operation? Thanks in advance. Denis

[jcollins]

Denis,
I can't help but I am interested in this thread. I hope to see what others, that are more experienced, have to say about this. Thanks!

[gerygarcia]

Denis

I also own a 1994 28' TE with a Peninsular engine.
"Resolution" (my Albin) has about 560 hrs.
I am not truly mechanically inclined, but I have recently dealt with this problem and will have to deal with it more so in the near future.

It is normal for your propeller shaft to have a little water "leakage" - it helps cool the heat generated by the friction created, but if you are experiencing a steady flow of water, enough for your bilge pump to be activated because of this, than this is not that good.

My mechanic noticed that I had a abnormal amount of water dripping throught the shaft and that it needed to be fixed.

He was able to tighten the seal (around $50 labor expense) but said that either next year or the year after it would have to be replaced. He said there are only so many times you can make adjustments to the seal before you can't do any more "tightenings". He said it was very difficult to get to the shaft seal.

I will be replacing with a drippless seal shaft. In order to do so will be a huge expense. He said in order to get to the problem, he would have to remove the whole engine. I'm figuring that the cost will run over $4K!

I am very interested in anyone who has this problem also and has any alternate suggestions to remedy this.

By the way, this is my first post on this site after monitoring it for the last couple of weeks. I have been a member the Yahoo group for some time and have been looking for a site more dedicated to the newer Albins for a while. Great initiative to start this site!

Gery Garcia

[Denis]

Thanks for the reply garygarcia, I think I already have a dripless seal in the boat and now that is leaking. I will probably pull the engine out this fall and bring it home so that I can address the problem. I hate not knowing why something is happening. The best way is to pull it and start over, then I'll know for sure that it's fixed.

[DBM]

If your shaft seals are the same as most inboards ( i don't own an albin yet) then you don't actually have a seal, what you have is called shaft packing. Basically it's wax (and teflon) impregnated cotton rope that goes down around the shaft into a shaft log. there is a big nut on top of the log that you tighten down to control water flow. Some water is supposed to leak through to cool the shaft but if it get to much, you tighten it down some. At some point you can't tighten it down any more and you need to replace the packing. It's not that big of a job but if you do it in the water you want to be careful not to take out the bottom ring to keep water flow to a minumum.

it's a system that has been around forever and seems to work fine. I've heard a lot of problems on the dripless seals on some of my friends shamrocks. While my shamrock drips more than i'd like most of the time it seems to work fine.

good luck

DBM
LIBERTY

[DougSea]

Can anyone out there help with an explanation? I have a 1994, 28' TE with a Peninsular engine.
Last weekend while I was putting in a new salt water wash down pump, I noticed a water line running from the oil cooler down to the area of the propeller shaft. I have wanted to tighten the nuts on my shaft seal since last year because I felt that it leaked a little too much water during operation. I was fairly confident that it was your standard cutless bearing that was ment to drip during operation, does this water line show that I have a dripless shaft seal that is leaking? I would suppose that is a bad thing. If that is the case do I now have to pull out to change the seal or is it ok to drip during operation? Thanks in advance. Denis

Hey Denis,

I too saw this water line running to my shaft (1997 28TE w/ Peninsular) and, when my shaft seal started leaking after an encounter with a sunken 4x4 I told the mechanic I thought I had a 'dripless shaft seal'. When I picked up the boat after the repair he told me that in fact I had a standard stuffing box and that the water line was a cooling water line. He wasn't really clear about it but my basic understanding is that due to way the shaft is configured in the Albin there's a lack of waterflow to the shaft and so water is supplied via this hose.

Hope that helps! If anyone can expand on this topic I'd be interested to hear it.

Doug

[Mariner]

DBM is dead on in his analysis of the situation. Unless you have a dripless shaft seal, you probably just need to tigten the packing nut (a 30 second, one man job requiring nothing more than a large crescent wrench). If the nut is already tightened, it is time to replace the packing. This is also not a difficult job, assuming you have easy access to the packing gland. You simply remove the nut and take out what is left of the old packing. You then wind in new packing and replace the nut.

This may be a difficult thing to do on V-drive boats where the packing gland is underneath the engine, like our 36' ET. Most newer boats have gone to the dripless style and they are largely trouble-free from what I've experienced and heard.


The reason a traditional packing gland leaks is not so much for cooling as it is just a reality of the engineering. When you over-tighten the nut, it packs the wax in too tight, and increases the friction on the shaft. This causes it to overheat and will burn up the wax. Thus, you will have to re-pack it more often. Loosen it up a bit and it will last longer, but you get water dripping into the boat. Most people say you should tighten it to the point where you get about one drop every second or two while the shaft is not turning.

[Denis]

Thanks for the replys they certainly help. I was getting very nervous thinking I already have a dripless shaft seal and it's leaking! If it is just a regular stuffing box I can handle that.

[Veebyes2]

For most of us the stuffing box is next to inaccessible therefore we don't want to think about it till something goes wrong. Most of the time it does what it is supposed to do & does it masintenance free. The teflon impregnated packing material can last for many hundreds of hours of use.

While bilge diving, check the cutless bearing too. If the shaft can be rattled you either have or have a problem developing. Again, if everything is in alignment, the cutless bearing will serve for many hundreds of hours.

[gerygarcia]

I am installing a dripless shaft seal this spring.
If you look at my previous post, it has come to fruition.

My wallet will be hurting, but Resolution will be better than new! While the engine is out
I have a list of things getting done.

Cheers and happy spring launch!

Gery Garcia

[Denis]

Gery, good luck with your list of projects. It so happens I am meeting a mechanic from Standish boat yard tomorrow morning. He is going to re-pack my shaft seal. I talked with him today and he said he probably worked on my boat when it was made. He worked for Albin for 18 years so of course he is very familiar with the design. I can't wait to see how he gets his body under the engine to work on that seal, but he says he does it all the time.

[Denis]

Gery, I forgot to ask, are you going to have your projects done in time to go to Block for the rendevous?

[gerygarcia]

Hi Denis

Hopefully all projects should be done before May. We'll see

Anyway, my mechanic said it was pretty impossible to get to it without removing the engine. If this is possible, I would like to know how. Your mechanic is either skinny, bendy or have the ability to shape shift. I looked at the area myself and I just dont see how he can get to the packing box to do any kind of significant work. If you are going to be there while he does it, take some pictures if possible. It might be good for posterity for others in this group that might need repacking in the future! I am sure repacking is a lot cheaper than removing a engine, but I have other things getting addressed other than the shaft seal.

Here is the line item of work to be done (from the work order estimate):

Disconnect and remove engine assembly providing access for shaft packing box/repair/replacement/reinstall

Remove shaft for rebalancing. Replace bearing and rebed cutlass bearing support flange. Remove and replace existing packing box with a dripless seal system and resinstall shaft assembly

Out of frame maintenance: (Stuff you should do anyway since the engine is removed):
Clean/degrease engine and transmission assembly.
Scrape, prime and spot paint as necessary. Rotate transmission/v-drive fluid. Inspect clean/lube motor mounts. Replace hot water heater bypass hoses.

I am hoping that will be all. I did tell them to inform me of anything else that might need addressing. Resolution was built in 1994 so it needs some TLC. Better now than later (as long as my credit card doesn't explode) Sarcastically, I think I should of become a marine mechanic! They charge more than I do an hour - LOL!

I originally told them to investigate installing a vacuu flush system with larger holding tank, but he said that there really isn't that much room for a larger tank. Cost to put the system with the same size tank would be around $2800. I told them to put it on ice for now since of all the work that being done.

It's going to cost me a little over 5K, but Resolution will be good for the next couple of years (knock on wood)

I will post more as I get updated by my mechanic. FYI - Dickson Marine West in Bay Shore. Dickson has been doing work on Resolution since I've owned her. They've been great and have a good reputation.
I've been going to them because when I did research on Peninsular engines, they were listed as "authorized" Peninsular mechanics, which was good enough for me.

Gery

[Denis]

To whoever may be interested, I just returned from a trip to my boat to meet the mechanic. I met him down there so that he could re-pack the stuffing box. I did not know if he could do it because it is a very tight spot and I would not have believed it but I watched him every step of the way. It took him 1.5 hrs. to remove the covering over the shaft, loosen the lock nut, remove the bonnet. He then dug out three pieces of packing material, measured them, cut new ones, installed the three new pieces and put everything back together. He made it look easy, he said he was leaving the rubber covering lose for me so that I can check it after it's in the water, then tighten or loosen the nut to make sure it is just dripping every 15 seconds or so. I asked him a million questions while I had him there. He said he could also install a new dripless shaft seal without removing the engine, he has done several. He also explained my bilge pump situation, he showed me the bracket that holds the float switch, the switch itself is hidden. He said the float is most likely defective and needs to come out and be changed. I would never have found it because you can't see it. I am very pumped right now, can you tell?

[Russell]

I may have posted this before but those of you repacking stuffing boxes should consider this Gore packing material:
http://www.e-marine-inc.com/products/gf ... l#instruct

It costs a little more than regular flax but other boaters claim it makes their stuffing boxes dripless.