Intermittent Starting Problem

[seasalt]

Sometimes my starboard Cummins turns over and sometimes it does not. Just clicks and acts like a dead battery. Sometimes I move the shifter back and forth all the way to exercise the neutral safety switch and sometimes it rolls over and sometimes it does not. If not, I move all battery switches to ALL and sometimes there is joy and sometimes not. If not, I press the parallel switch on the bridge and sometimes it rolls over and sometimes not. Today I did all the above and nothing worked. Then I tried it without any extra measures and it started. Go figure.

Until today one of the above procedures has always worked but I am stumped as to the cause. The 8D AGM battery is only 4 months old. It takes a charge well and unless the boat is not run for a day or two the starter engages as if nothing has ever been wrong.

This happened when I bought the boat in late July and all assumed it was the battery...so it was replaced.

Intermittent problems are hell. I wish things would just break and get it over with.

Any ideas?

[DougSea]

I'd start by checking the grounds. Start at the engine and move on from there. Also make sure that when the battery(s?) was replaced that nothing ended up loose. Something's not happy in electrical path land.

I think the engine starting with all of your various "exercises" was just a matter of luck. Doubt they have any direct correlation. (Of course, this being a boat, they COULD have an impact. But it seems unlikely.)

[jleonard]

Yes check grounds and make sure you include the starter mounting bolts. That is part of the ground path.
There is also a relay likely mounted low on the engine where corrosion can take it's toll.

[RobS]

and include the connections at the back of the battery selector switches

[seasalt]

BTW,

I posted this on both the Boater Ed and Hatteras Owner's forums. I am getting a lot of suggestions on how to trace down the issue and many guesses on what will eventually be found.

The guess getting the overwhelming majority of the votes is a bad ground...somewhere. Could be anywhere from the switiches on the bridge...to the main battery switches...to the main engine ground...to the starter ground. The fact that it is intermittent suggests that a grounding issue may be the cause.

Tomorrow I am going to do some reaching around the starboard side of the engine to see if I can find a loose cable.

After that exercise does not work I am calling a supposedly excellent boat electrician. So excellent, in fact, that his customers treat he and his family to dinner at the yacht club on a fairly regular basis..

[jleonard]

Don't forget about the relay mounted low on the engine. There may be two or three of them, one is for the starter the other(s) are for the grid heater system.

[marko]

I had one Cummins shut down on me and limped into port in transit. Worked for 1 1/2 days on it but it was solved by a response here in AOG. Check the reset button on top of the engine. Its in a small bracket with two screws two remove. I had to look close, as the red button was no longer red. The wires come loose underneath and could go intermittent. Easy fix if that's the issue. Worth checking anyway.

[pkdiver]

Ron,
I had the same problem on my 2005 28 TE and the problem first surfaced right after I purchased the boat and it was brand new. It was an intermittent issue that persisted for about 3 years until a mechanic told me that it probably was the starter relay. I tried everything just like you when it wouldn't start and eventually it would turn over so I wasn't sure exactly what the problem was. At one point I bought a remote starter switch that is used on cars and had it hooked up just in case I was unable to start the boat by pushing the starter switch. I replaced the starter relay and I haven't had a problem starting the boat since.
Good luck figuring the problem out.
Pete

[Serenity]

I had the same issue on my Albin with a 315 Yanmar when I purchased her. At time I would rock the throttle/tranny lever back and forth and she would then start. I even replaced the cut out, neutral switch to no avail. Eventually it turned out that the throttle/tranny cable was out of adjustment at the helm. The mechanic tighten her up and haven't had an issue for 2 years. I also don't shut the engine down while I am fishing either.

[jleonard]

If it's the neural safety switch there should be no "click" because the circuit is open. The switch closes the circuit.
The original post said it was clicking meaning there is power going to the relay. That's the clicking sound. Usually that means the relay is energizing, but the large contacts going to the starter are kaput.

[seasalt]

Two boat electricians are coming tomorrow at 8:30. One is very slim and flexible. They are going to go through the entire starting circuit.

[DougSea]

One is very slim and flexible.

A VERY useful trait in boat mechanics!

Good luck!

[seasalt]

They came...one moderately slim and the one moderatly tubby. The slim one snaked around the outboard side of the starboard engine far enough to get his tester on the starter. Good voltage to there. Lots of clicking and clunking but the starter would not engage. They say that the good voltage and the clicking and clunking rules out bad connections, switches and cables leaving the starter as the problem. They say all this with "90%" confidence".

He said that they do not do mechanical work and even if they did he did not think that he could get far enough back there to remove it. Chuck commented in one of the posts on Sole Removal at the 35 TE Forum that he had a mechanic back there once to work on the Flo Scan.

If my regular mechanic can't get back there the galley will have to come out.

[RobS]

If it comes down to an inch or so of clearance to get the starter out, the option of possibly unbolting the tranny coupler and engine mounts and sliding the engine over a bit with a big pry bar should be investigated. I never been in an engine room of a 35 w/twins so it's a shot in the dark suggestion. I know I'd rather align an engine than disrupt the galley and sole if possible.

[DougSea]

Another thing to look at is to see what can be easily removed to allow better access. On Sonny that would be the raw water line to the exhaust elbow and the main raw water line and sea strainer. With those removed, with a lot less effort than removing the sole, you may have sufficient access. Of course your set up may be different, but you get the idea.