A25--turns to port on a dime. to starboard on a dinner plate

[PeteSharp]

I would estimate that my 1973 Albin 25 turns to the left twice as well, twice as sharp as it does to the right. And in fact the rudder position maxed out on each side, respectively, reflects this estimation. it seems that if I was to adjust the rudder post arm in the aft cabin I would lose some left turn capability and gain a little right turn capability. of course I do not want to lose that left turn ability but the right turn is atrocious and I feel like I need to address it somehow. has anyone else had this issue? I assume that the total rudder travel is limited by the linkage or can it be lengthened? thank you for any insight you can provide. I've had the boat, my first boat, for a year, love it,

[denchen]

A lot of that is what some on this side of the pond call `paddle wheel effect`. Basically the bottom of your propeller that is deeper in the water has more bite than the top and is trying to `walk` as it were sideways. This effect can be used to your advantage when coming along side a jetty, as a quick burst on the engine will give the stern a kick to one side. A burst in reverse will kick the opposite way. If the propeller is the right one for the boat all you can do is ensure the weight distribution has the boat in good trim.

[loubennett]

Do I understand correctly that your max rudder angle is different for port and starboard? If so, I would definitely make adjustments to make them equal. You could also increase the total. If you have hydraulic steering, that probably means a ram with more travel. If it's mechanical, you could move the attachment point on the tiller arm closer to the rudder post. This will make steering effort higher, so don't go too far. Are there rudder stops limiting the travel? If so, they should be adjusted. Whatever you do, don't allow too much rudder angle. At some angle the rudder will stall and become ineffective. Some other A25 owner may be able to tell you what maximum rudder angle they have.

[NickScheuer]

The Albin-25 Owner's Manual clearly illustrates what you are posting about, and why. It is one, (maybe the only) manual which clearly explains this feature.

I'm a new owner, also, and I certainly will not be monkeying around with my boat's steering linkage.

Nick

[PeteSharp]

Mr. Bennett, you're right. The rudder turns much more for a left turn than a right. Mr. Scheur, I saw the explanation you're talking about but it's opposite what i'm experiencing. I think somehow my steering linkage got skewed or else someone put in a clockwise prop rather than the conventional "anticlockwise" one.. But that does not account for great disparity in rudder swing. I will need to monkey with it i'm afraid. Would the rudder drop out if I loosened the linkage arm? Probably a dry dock repair... bummer.

[PeteSharp]

Denchen, I agree about the prop effect but according to the manual the effect would be opposite. It must be a skewed rudder linkage.

[NickScheuer]

Sorry; I thought your boat's turning characteristics wee according to the manual instead of opposite.

[loubennett]

Even with equal rudder travel to both sides you could experience better turning to one side due to prop walk. This would likely only show up at low speeds. As to making adjustments in the water, you have to determine what is holding the rudder up. If there is a shoe holding the bottom of the rudder to the skew, it shouldn't move no matter what you do inside. Similarly, most boats have a collar on the rudder post separate from the tiller arm that keeps the rudder from falling out. If so you can loosen the tiller arm and adjust it in the water. Sorry I can't be more specific, I'm not familiar with the details of the A25 rudder.

[PeteSharp]

Thanks everyone for your time and insight. If I fix it I'll post an update.

[Tim Orr]

If the engine in your boat has been replaced it possibly is rotating opposite to the direction of the old Volvo engine. This would account for your opposite prop walk. If the rudder travel had been adjusted to compensate for the original prop rotation and has not been changed with a new engine you might experience the extreme situation you describe.

[PeteSharp]

Mr. Orr what a brilliant conjecture. I love it. It makes sense. I do have the volvo md3 engine but am not sure if it's original. It does have nearly 6000 hours so i assumed it was.Regardless, thank you.

[DesertAlbin736]

I would consult a Chapman's Seamanship & Small Boat Piloting book for suggestions on backing a single screw inboard. Actually you're lucky the boat will back to starboard at all, as many full keel inboards, especially sailboat hulls, won't no matter how much rudder, and at best are barely able to back up straight. But there are tricks to get around that, which for docking may include use of spring lines as well as "backing and filling". That is get a little momentum going in reverse, then a burst of forward power with left rudder to kick the stern over to starboard for backing up to the right. Some right rudder in reverse can help back up straight or turn to starboard. Best to go out to some unobstructed place and practice.

For example with spring lines, say you're docked port side to a pier and the wind is pushing you onto the dock and you want to leave the dock. Can't go forward with right rudder 'cuz the stern would slam into the dock. Can't run parallel to the dock 'cuz you'd scrape the side. If the boat won't back well to starboard how do you get the stern to back away from the dock? First it helps if you have crew and/or a helper on the dock. Crew person loops a long dock line from the bow back to a dock cleat somewhere aft and stands by with an extra fender. Helmsman motors ahead slow with left rudder while crew holds the end of the dock line (just looped around the dock cleat, not tied off) and keeps a fender ready to place between the bow and the dock. Spring line holds the bow in while the stern kicks out. Soon as the boat is at 45 degrees to the dock the helmsman shifts to reverse with enough right rudder to back straight or to starboard some. Crew hauls in the dock line and as soon as the boat is far enough away from the dock can turn into the wind or parallel to the dock as needed.

[DesertAlbin736]

Here's a video on back-and-fill maneuvering of a large sailboat. A25's are similar to sailboat hulls for these purposes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GouDprQSPTA

Here's another longer video on spring lines and back-n-fill docking maneuvers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qOPM_SMJCc

And finally, here's one using a forward spring line on the stern cleat to back up and swing the bow away from the dock. These are all sailboat videos, but just like A25s, they have fixed conventional single prop and rudder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq75PvUChss

[don123]

IMO, the biggest problem with the steering on the A-25's and A-27's is that their rudders are completely unbalanced - 100% of the rudder area is behind it's pivot point

If you Google 'Balanced Rudder' and read the Wikipedia article, it will tell you that common practice on boats is to use a semi-balanced rudder. "A degree of semi-balance is normal to avoid rudder instability i.e. the area in front of the pivot is less than that behind. This allows the rudder to be moved with less effort than is necessary with an unbalanced rudder."

One other advantage to semi-balanced rudders is that the rudder works on a larger percentage of the prop wash, so the steering is markedly improved . . .. the boat will do a 180 degree turn in either direction using much less acreage than with an unbalanced, barn door rudder like these boats all came with. With a barn door rudder, only 50% of the prop wash is deflected while the other 50% of thrust remains straight ahead, missing he rudder completely - This makes the boat much more difficult to turn

On my A-27 I added 5 inches to the leading edge of the rudder. I also added a stainless strap between the bottom of the rudder and the aft end of the keel

Don