Trolling valve

[Pitou]

Maye Marie or anyone

I also have a Hurth and have considered the installation of a valve / trolling for stripers slowwwww troll and the no wake areas. At idle I push 6.2 knots ( a bit of wake ) not too good around the docks! I have been clicking in and out of gear to keep the wake down. Time to do something about that. 380 Cummins turbo with ZF Hurth in my "02 28TE.
Could you share anticipated costs of valve and install?
Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

[Mariner]

Are you sure you can't adjust the idle a little lower on that engine? What RPM does it idle at?

[Pitou]

I have altready visited that / 1st step. I believe we brought it down to a little over 500RPM. The 6.2 is inside the river in still water around mooring areas and docks and slips / otherwise about 5kt at idle. I just don't like being the guy rocking the boats on their moorings and those tied to their berths therefore in and out. On the hard for winter / ice is receding. Docks are back in and available April 15 / splash day ..... not tax day.
>>>))))));>>

[Maye Marie]

Pitou,
Have not completely bought every thing needed for the Hurth HSW 630 V1 transmission. The Trolling valve itself is quoted at $645.00 dollars. Expect to have $800.00 invested in the project when done in material. I will due the installation myself, so I have no Idea how much it would be to have one install.

Do not have a final decision on control cable for the valve. Looking at what every one has sent in and will make that decision after I have the valve on and can clearly see what I am dealing with. My one thought is to use two switches in series on the valve and throttle. If both go open it will break the power to the fuel pump. Also will have a light come on. But just a thought at this time have not gotten into the nuts and bolts yet. Reliability concerns might change my mind.

I am currently looking on the internet for cables that might be available. My second thought is to use a dual cable similar to the throttle trans engagement to engage a stop pin and exercise the valve. Right now I just have ideas and not a decided direction.

Thank you every one for responding and sharing information. It is extremely useful on working though this project.

[Maye Marie]

Be careful about lowering RPM on the e Yanmar. I would not go under 750 RPM. With what information I have been looking at about sticking valves on the Yanmar I would keep RPM on the high side. I also have found dropping rpm under 700 is producing engine vibration and sounds to me it does not like it. So I pushed mine back up.

Found the same thing around six knots at idle. Fishing the same area and slipping gear in and out produced no fish. I dropped idle and immediately caught bass. A steady speed seems to be preferred by the fish., so onto the troll valve.

[Pitou]

Maye Marie & all

Thanks for the costing info. It looks like the trolling valve has now made this season's upgrade project list. I spoke to Cummins end of last week and they told me to get idle back up to 750 / as stated earlier not good for the valves. Only ran the boat with idle back last few days of last season. Phew!! As project progresses I'll drop a post. Thanks to all.

[Maye Marie]

PITOU and others

I have been doing some more research on installing a trolling valve. You might have interest in what I found.

I remember from some of the aircraft I have flown I used what was called a vernier control cable. They would use this cable for prop adjustment or mixture control. Knowing this would be the ideal set up for the troll valve I went searching and found a company had beat me to it. Panish controls are selling a vernier control head specifically for the troll valve. They also went one step further and will include a mechanical trolling valve interlock system. Something I noted earlier that I wanted to make.

The Vernier head and control cable has a push knob you press and pull for a rough setting and then you can twist a knob for fine tuning. The overly sensitive troll valves and the need to fine tune are critical. This has been noted buy many who has installed a troll valve as a problem area and some had to modify the linkage to make it work. The Verneir system would eliminate that problem and give you precise control. One turn on the knob would move the cable 1/16th of and inch. Panish Controls sells this cable and a mechanical interlock that would prevent the throttle from being increased while you operate the valve. The cost of the cable was 150.00 dollars. The cost of the interlock was 450.00 dollars.

The later price put me into shock. Consider the cost of transmission still might make sense. I still may make something on my own for the cost. The interlock system from Panish can be installed at a later date if you want. I also asked for some drawings to be faxed to me. Looking at them I would say you could retrofit the interlock with most cables. So any of you that have already installed a trolling valve, you should be able to retrofit a Panish interlock system. The web sight was under construction so it had a limited amount of information. A phone call found them to be informative and helpful. The system looks to be the way I would like to go.

www.panishcontrols.com/TVI.htm

[Russell]

Although that Panish control cable is resonably priced it may be more sophisticated than necessary. The one on my boat is a simple Morse control cable with T handle. It comes out right behind the throttle lever so the cables are tied together. Pull it out and the trolling valve is engaged. Push it in and the valve is disengaged. Too bad the mechanical lock out is so expensive. I heard that the new electronic controlled engines will not allow you to go above 1100 RPM with the trolling valve engaged. In any case you will really like the trolling valve when you have it going.

[Pitou]

Maye Marie and others

The mecjanical Panish Controls are certainly more reasonable than the Electronic shift and troll controls with processor offered by ZF Marine
($ 2500 for processor and another $ 700+ for shift and troll) plus valve. This would replace the the current mechanical controls and regulate the max rpm when in troll and if you go over the troll would disengage. I won't even think about running this past my 1st mate/minister of finance.

I have a friend who used to run tugs and barges that had something similar and mechanical to slow those work boats down when doing the delicate stuff. He now works for a Marine Insurance Co. as claims manager and says at least 1 claim a month for incidental damge as a result of electronic control failure . He says stick with the mechanical push pulls and pay attention. That will be my tact. Will order troll valve from ZF this coming week and install push pull with light on dash. Will post further as project progresses.
Thanks

[Carl]

Russell, I am getting ready to order the control valve and cable. I need to measure up for the cable length. How about a picture as to where you mounted your T handle.

Thanks, Carl

[RicM]

About how difficult is the actual install on a ZF transmission? Went down to Phoenix (2003 28 TE Yanmar 315) yesterday (Sat) in Stamford to start buffing the hull. It looked like the access to the ZF was pretty good. Do you have to get inside the tranny?
While I was there a guy detailing another boat came over and chatted me up. Gave me a price of $300 to compound and polish the oxidized blue hull, touch up bottom paint which he said was adequate for another season, put bottom paint on the trim tabs, and wire brush the prop and rudder. Did't want $$ up front, said I could pay him when done. Seemed like a good deal as my little 5" buffer was getting me exactly nowhere.

[Russell]

Carl, I will take a picture and see if I can learn how to post it but it will take me a couple of days. The trolling valve was on the boat when I purchased it and it may have been installed at the factory. The handle is just aft of the throttle and the cables all travel back to the transmission together. I think the shift and trolling valve are right next to each other on the transmission. Do you want a picture of that too. Russ

[Carl]

Russell, Dont need a picture of the trans as I know what those connections look like. I guess my concern is that if I put the T handle too close to the throttle it might impact throttle movement in reverse. I just dont have a good picture in my mind as to how far the T handle sticks up.
Thanks again for your help!
Carl

[RicM]

I guess I just don't have a good idea about the valve works. Is this a bolt on/plumbing deal, or do you have to get down and dirty with the transmission? Is it something a relatively handy person can do with hand tools?

[Russell]

Carl: Here is the picture. You can see the chrome handle aft of the throttle. It pulls up about 2 inches and is not in the way of anything.