Classic 36 fixed windows & Windshield leaks how to fix

[Captn_Dwt]

Hi Folks,
this will be the first of a few posts to share what I've learned during our first winter of repairs to our 1980 36 DC. Both fixed windshields, the center opening, and one of the 1/4 windows just aft of the windshields leaked badly. LOTS of water with any rain at all. I was sure there was a break in the bonding of the glass to the frame. Wrong in all cases. Here's what we learned:
(1) Frames and glass are mounted with 4200 or 5200 grade adhesive. They were extremely difficult to remove, and every pane of glass broke under the stress.
(2) the frames are mounted as individual segments (4 pieces, not joined together before mounting)
(3) The sealant to frame seal did NOT fail. Only the glass to sealant failed. In other words, the only passage of water was around the edges of the glass, at the lowest point where water tends to pool.
Summary: Because of the amount of sheer labor involved in replacing the glass, I would not recommend this to anyone else unless their glass was in poor condition (which mine was. the glazing used was laminated, and the moisture was working up the lamination and fogging the view). I firmly believe that a penetrating sealer (such as "tolley's creeping crack cure) would work just fine.
Prevention: Water pooling at the low-point of the window frame is your enemy. maintain a sloped edge with the caulking to keep the water from sitting at the glass to caulk seam.
I'll post some pictures soon.
We did door removal and a few other seemingly impossible things. But, what a great boat!!!
There's no better tonic for Winter than to be able to work on your boat!!

[jleonard]

A previous Albin owner passed along a good tip to me. File or sand a drain trough in the lower moulding strips on the corners of the front windows to let the water drain. I did this and no longer have "standing water" to leak past the glass.

[edgarcia737]

Curious on what the trick is to remove the side doors. My starboard door is difficult to open and I need to lubricate the wheels or rollers that ride on the door track.

I had my forward windows replaced because we had some soft wood that need to be removed. My shipwright did a wonderful job. He is scheduled to repair the two side windows in the aft stateroom. There is some soft wood due to leaking windows and replace the window tracks.

Looking forward to seeing some pictures of your progress.

Take care,
Ed Garcia
43' Classic DC

[jleonard]

My side doors come out easy. Remove the screws holding the center track and slide the track out (Mine is brass). Then remove the teak strip on the lower outside of the sliding area. Lift door and swing bottom out.
Done.

[bccanucker]

My doors did NOT come out easy. See the bottom of this thread on the solution that worked for me.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3832

[edgarcia737]

Thanks for the link. I'm heading up to the boat next week. I live in Scottsdale AZ but spend the summers in Seattle. So I'm trying to get so maintenance done before the wife and I drive up in June.

Ed Garcia
Hobo
1982 43' Classic

[Captn_Dwt]

Hi again,
I did lots of reading before we removed the doors. I think it worthwhile if they need thorough refinishing as mine did. It seems there's differences from model to model and perhaps year to year with these oldies...but every bit of experience we share will help someone else.
For my 1980, the Stbd door could be removed if it could slide back, as the frame is "open" to the rear. So, the trick was to route out the track, and just make a removable "stop" that will retain the door when is replaced. We did that, with the "stop" on the upper track. The photo shows the routed track.
For the Port door...oh, not fun. The frame is closed at the back, glued with 5200 and bolted from the inside and those fastners are no-longer accessable with the interior in. So? We chose to cut that back end of the frame and cut it away from the cabin. A long, flexible sabre-saw job did the trick, along with a 3" saw to cut the frame appart. This piece is now screwed to the cabin from the outside, with the screws recessed and the holes bung'd closed. There was some hole-filling to do, but in the end it was not that difficult. From now on, this "end" will be removable by pulling the bungs and removing the screws. Ah..much better. The photo just shows the fine finish...so much easier done on the horizontal!
More later.

[jleonard]

They look great!

[seblyte]

Hi all, just to let you know that we are doing a whole DVD on window replacement and will be happy to post as many stills as people want. We are stripping out, repairing frames, building the new windows and fitting them.

I totally agree with Capt_Dwt about the scale of the job. It's not fun but it is actually very acheivable.

[Major Tom]

Hi seblyte:

Many will benefit from the documentation of your window project. I'm certainly looking forward to it.

[seblyte]

Hi just to say I haven't forgotten about posting window repair stills but in the meantime I have another bit of information to share. If you have water ingress in the cabin wall by the stove as we did, we found the culprit to be the hole that the gas pipe enters the cabin. The gas pipe runs through the flybridge structure and enters through the top deck into the cabin. This hole had been letting in water for years causing extensive rot. We solved this by cutting a window through the side of the top deck lazerette which gained us access to the point of entry of the offending gas pipe and manufactured a collar which we have sealed properly. Another really silly mistake when the boat ws built but now cured.

[meridian]

Re: Port door. The PO, twice removed, was an engineer and designed a sliding aluminum screen door that sits between the door and the inside, just the opposite of what you would expect. I have his design drawing on the boat and I'll get them posted up soon.

[River Dawg]

I was wondering where folks are getting some of the necessary supplies for this type of repair. My 36 Classic has some water damage on the stbd inside (behind the steering station) bulkhead. This seems to be a teak veneer paneling and I would like to replace it, but have no idea where to secure some of this material. I am also going to have to rebuild the sliding windows once I figure out how the molding comes off. I think I read that the outside trim/molding is screwed on from the inside. Great, so what is holding the inside trim on, I can't see any screws or bungs on the inside trim. I am sure that the metal (aluminum?) tracks will need replacing, where do you find new ones? thanks for your help, Paul H.

[Fireant4040]

River Dawg, I'm currently replacing my aft, sliding window over the bed. The outside trim was screwed in from the outside. I drilled out the bungs and Once i pulled that trim off, I was able to see the screws holding in the inside trim. I removed all the old adhesive and needed to do some patch work. The opening had lots of old screw holes and fiberglass damage. I used West Systems 610 thickened epoxy to patch holes and square back off the opening. Worked great. I ordered some african mahogany veneer rolls from http://www.cabinetparts.com. I'm still undecided what I should use to re-bed everything...the windows and trim. Any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

[River Dawg]

Thanks for the info Fireant, I had not thought about bungs on the outside. My window trim had been painted by a previous owner so it is obvious (apparently, not to me) that the bungs would be hidden by the white paint. I'll do some sanding and they will probably show up. I have been reading how some others are having problems with rain run-off from the fly bridge. This is a real problem for our boat. Some of it is coming from the drain holes where the water has turned inward to the glass or just the fiberglass and is ending up on the windows. I guess there may be more than one solution to this, but I was thinking of trying to fit the right size brass tubing into the drain hole in order to divert the water away from the bulkhead and glass.