Choppy Seas

[Yummy]

Hello everyone,

I'm reading throughout the forum how well the Albins handle the sea and their seekeeping abilities. I was once the owner of a 26' Revenge Boston whaler, and although she handled remarkably well in rough-to very rough-seas, where the waves were very tall and far apart, when the waves were 2-3ft but not farther apart than the boat's length it was very difficult to do more than 10-12 knots, or, you would break your back. I'm wondering how well an Albin would perform in this "choppy environment", more specifically the 28 TE model. I'm not shure its hull can negotiate those back breakers at anything beyond hull speed; am I wright?

Any slip-disc sufferers around?

Thanks,
Yummy.

[Jack]

Your distinction between short chop and long troughs between waves is key. Long Island Sound has a good amount of the short 2 to 3 foot chop. I like my 28TE very much but performance in 3 foot plus chop is not one of its best attributes. The cabin keeps you dry on a windy day and the wipers provide visibilty but you can get banged around if you don't throttle back. Some days you throttle back and see sailboats not doing too much worse than you are and they're knifing through the same chop. I suppose deep vee boats fare better but I'm not familiar with them. They seem to maintain a fairly good speed in the chop and bounce around less. But then, if you buy a cruiser style for the hull shape, you're giving up your soul for a smooth ride.

[Yummy]

Thanks Jack. It is a fact, however, that the hull shape will inevitably determine the ride. The deep vee will give you more speed and smoothness, but, at a running cost significantly higher - for example an Albin 28 would do around 2.5 miles to a gallon whereas a similar deep vee just 1 mile. A 31' Bertram,or a 29' Blackfin or even a 30' Albemarle (all 3 with very very deep vees) need twice the power - hence twice the fuel consumption - than the 28' Albin, at cruising speeds. Question is what shall the cruising speed for the 28' Albin be at choppy seas; can you bring her to plane or should you sit back at 8 knots? And what if there is almost only this type of 2-3 ft waves you are faced with?

[sweetwater]

I have to say...My experience with my 28 is that it absolutely smashes through a head sea. It is a great riding boat limited to it's 28 foot length. Take one for a ride before you decide. I am on the Great South Bay where there seems to always be a stiff, tight chop. It's all relative, I suppose.

[waterhound]

I'm a new owner of a 28TE, and I'd like to echo sweetwater's comments. My other boat is a 19' whaler outrage - so you can do 14 knots in short, steep buzzards bay slop, but you'll pound the s#&$ out or yourself doing so. I've taken the new Albin out in the same stuff now, and have not witnessed any discomfort other than having to turn on the windshield wipers when you're really in a blow. The revenge is the same sort of deadrise deep vee as my outrage (early 199x years) - they pound, the won't sink, but they pound. The albin is a deep vee - a progressive deep vee, and much deeper than the revenge. In addition, the Albin has much greater displacement, an inboard centered in the boat, etc. Completely different animal (in a good way). Try it.

[jcollins]

I recently (June?) followed Quest, another TE 28, from Annapolis, across the Bay, around Bloody Point. We had a 2-3 foot chop that morning. So we had it on the bow, then starboard quarter, then following as we made turns from the north to the east. If I recall we still ran 12-14 knots. Not much pounding. The wipers were going, but the ride was o.k.
If my recollection is off, Lou will jump in here.

John

[Cape Codder]

What a coincidence...I too had a 25 Revenge WT, with a single 250 Yamaha. And yes, it did handle remarkable. Even better when tabs were installed. When the tabs lowered the sharp entry bow of the Revenge, it cut through 2-3 ft steep chop MUCH better then withoutbs tabs.

We boat in the steep chop, slop Mecca. Buzzards Bay, Nantucket and Martha's Veneyard Sounds, and Woods Hole for good measure. No two days are the same.
Fresh afternoon "breezes"(20 knots), fast tidal currents, and shoals abound.

With head seas, I have found that trimming bow down a couple of degrees helps cut into chop better, and causes slightly more spray or kickback up in the windshield. (Lots of Rain-X really works)
If it's really bad, cutting back to 14-15 knots can help. Keep adjusting tabs a bit at a time to see at what angle smooths the ride.
Oddly enough, don't shy from INCREASING speed faster then you thought possible. It can surprise you that the ride improves...if not..... slow her back down.
In a following sea, the bow is usually best trimmed UP, and throttle to 16 knots or more.

In nay event, experiment with your tabs, dropping a raising the bow, and obviously keeping the boat level from side to side.
Full fuel tank, full water tank, and the number of passengers with cause the boat to handle differently. Adjust, adjust, adjust.
She handles about a good as any 28 cabin boat out there...on less fuel.

[Yummy]

Thank you all. Isn't it funny we all had (or still have) whalers! Moving to a bigger boat is not only a matter of more space or power, but also a matter of choice in what concerns the ride qualities. The trick is to find the best possible combination of hull vee (not only the deadrise at the transom but rather the whole vee progression from the bow back to the transom) at the minimum fuel cost. A sail boat or a wooden caique will almost never bang or pound, they will travel at practically no fuel cost at all, but, even at calm, they'll be doing 6-10 knots max. On the other hand, a deep vee Bertram of the same size will cruise through any kind of seas at high speeds consuming a gallon a mile. Talking about head-on 2-3 ft chops ( not any other type of head-on seas ), how realistic is it for a 28' Albin to take you there in one piece and at what speeds (+ or - ) given that fuel consumption will remain logical (2-3 miles to a gallon)?

[furball]

I find the boat continues to impress me especially in a head sea. I came out of the Chester last year into 3-4' seas with an occasional 5' mixed in for good measure. It's a very wet boat but I can only remember two waves that pounded and I knew they were coming when I came off the one before it. You know that feeling! I was running a steady 14-15 knts the whole time and never felt the need to back off. In fact, I'd hate to be out there at 7-8 knts in 2-3 footers, wind it up, the ride is much nicer.
She throws a lot of water. I asked Sara to watch for crab pots and I think her comment was' " I'll see a crab pot when it bounces off the windshield" She was right!
Also, with my flushdeck, I make sure I have at least a 3/4 full fuel tank as it keeps the bow higher. I can trim her down but I can't lift it. You'll want to bow higher in a following sea, at least I do.
I'm also curious to the 2-3 mile per gallon number. I think I'm more like 1.6 or so at those speeds with a loaded boat.
John

[Yummy]

Thanx John, I think I know what you're describing. I understand also that despite the boat being wet, if you're sitting in the house you don't get all that wet, isn't it? No need for yellows and all that stuff... As for consumption, it depends on the engine (make and size) but I think a 28's burn should be around 2m/gl, at least that's what other owners say, the 1.6 you mention is perhaps due to a heavy boat (fuel etc) and a bad weather combination. What's your consumption in more..normal situations?

[RobS]

I asked Sara to watch for crab pots and I think her comment was' " I'll see a crab pot when it bounces off the windshield" She was right!

So true! Erika and I have been there, many times. When it gets that wet you might as well read a book at the helm, and that goes for the Capt. too, there ain't much to see... I just watch the GPS to know when I get there and watch the radar so I don't hit anything on the way

Here's some snapshots of heavy spray running 10 knots into a bow quartering sea. It was a tight 4' chop in the LI Sound.

[Yummy]

Hey, Rob, are you sure somebody is not rinsing down those windows with a hose?!!

[whwells]

Yummy: Would like to weigh in on the Whaler vs others. I have owned several. The best was 27' Full Cabin with twin 350 Inboard. Fished with it for 10 years out of Trinidad, Ca. where we now live full time. Great boat but it like all my Whalers rode like a bucking horse in any rough seas. Still I loved the boat. Have said past times if it had twin diesel's it would still in be the slip. Had a 9' tender Whaler, 15' Whaler. Think that was it.
Might still do it again locally if ever the Luhrs sells. A better ride for that style boat is the 24' Off Shore Grady White. That was my boat before the Luhrs. There is another boat made in Seattle called the Arima that rides great and is a good fisher. Saw one yesterday 22' Fully equiped in Crescent City, Ca for 49,500 on the trailer.
Well after Nibbles I could do the 9500. without selling the Luhrs.
Really can't say much about the ride of the 35' but expect it to be good. Found the 31' and 35' on both sea tests to be great.
Everyone I know with the 28' love it. Funny, however, we all still fall back on the memories of the Whaler years. Be brave get out there and do it. My thought was do it before there is no time to do so. Even the Luhrs will sell in time. Well maybe.
whwells "Howard"
35TE Sportfisher/Conv.
"Nibbles"