Help on a 40 NSC

[RicM]

Yes keep us up on your plans. We can get together for dinner or something when you are in town next time. The 40 NSC is on our list for FL liveaboard possibilities. We would love to see one in person.

[jerseyalbin]

We are really hoping that we can move out next weekend. There are only about 20 of these in existence and it is a great liveabord. The weather longterm seems favorable. They should have the last few things done this week, a new throttle cable on port engine, aft head, few minor things. I do have the Caribbean varnishers working away too, my daughter sent a picture(lives in Portsmouth) and it looks great. They are trying to get 5 coats on this week. I think we may show up Friday night and leave Sat or Sunday depending on many things. We would be happy to have you check her out and grab a bite.
I will keep you posted on our plans, Rick.
Craig

[RicM]

Karen will be away in FL visiting her Mom, but I will be around THur, Fri, Sat day (I have a function Sat evening) and Sunday all Day.
Let me know.....

[tomcat]

Hey there Craig! Sounds like you're winding down on that " punch list". Bet you can't wait to get her home. Just had ours hauled and winterized and found out we need a new heat exchanger. We were told that the twins are not separate from each other when it comes to the cooling aspect.They are plumbed together...something he has never seen before. It's all greek to me. I'm going to try to find out some more answer this weekend. Anyway I hope you have an uneventful trip to her new homeport. Keep us posted!!

[yhc]

Tom,

Do you not have separate raw water seacock for each engine?

[tomcat]

Hey there Yong!! As far as I know, I do. When he was winterizing the engines he took a check on the antifreeze and said it was good for only 20 degrees and seemed to think that the raw water is flowing right through the engine and radiator. He seems to think I need a new heat exchanger, but doesn't know which one is bad. After going home and thinking about this for a while, I'm now wondering if it was winterized for Long Island Sound. The boat was in the water all winter, shrink wrap. Did it need to be good for 20 below like up here? I don't know. Plus, we ran the boat from the Sound up the Hudson to our marina, about 25 hours of running in 4 days, and not once did the engines go above 180 degrees. So I am questioning his conclusions. I'm leaning toward checking the antifreeze before leaving in the spring for the ride back to our marina and then check it again when we arrive to see if there is any changes (about a 4 hour ride) and keep tabs on it during the summer before we start changing out heat exchangers Any thoughts on the matter?

Did you have a good summer?

[jerseyalbin]

Yes Tom I will be anxious to get her home, but will have to haul it out in 2-3 weeks. I am going up Friday and making the run to NJ Saturday, leaving real early and going to try for a one day run, should be 12 -14 hours. Have had her out a few times and she is running great.

I am very confused on your heat exchanger, they are an integral part of both engines. You are dealing with 2 different things, antifreeze ,just like in a car, needs to be changed once in awhile, I forget the Yanmar recommendation probably 100 hours or every other year? Raw water runs through the heat exchanger. If the heat exchanger is bad I believe it will break through and can allow raw water to get to the "other side". I would think it was very clear which one it is. I am not sure that it would be evident by the temperature while running because the raw water would cool too, but it is not great for the engine.Perhaps it was not properly winterized in CT. If they did not flush it out with freshwater and install anticorrosive antifreeze that could have started the problem. (I met the guys who sold you the boat at the Newport Boat show, kept my hand on my wallet while talking with them). Just a few thoughts there are some other guys who frequent this site who are alot better than I am, perhaps they will jump in?

[tomcat]

Thanks Craig. Unfortunately, I'm not mechanically inclined. I love building things and making things out of wood....but engines....just not my bag. Lots of learning. So you met Bob, and let me see...was it Fred or was it John?

[yhc]

Tom,

Did your mechanic analyze the old coolant, other than checking the temp range, when he came to that conclusion? If not I agree w/ jerseyablin...I would definitely re-check the coolant since now you have the baseline you can compare to.

There are lots of other forum members who are mechanically inclined. You might want to start a new thread and seek their input as well.

Regards,

[RicM]

Yanmar recommends the orange dex-cool antifreeze, don't use green. If you have a failed heat exchanger in one engine it usually starts with pinhole corrosion and tiny amounts of seawater getting into the antifreeze (closed) side of the system. While not good, as it will cause corrosion in the engine, it is not a disaster and will not really change temperature or performance too much at first. Get the antifreeze checked and if there is sea water in it then flush the engine well, replace the heat exchanger (probably do both) refill and go boating.

[jerseyalbin]

Ric thanks for the visit on Friday night before we left Portsmouth for the trip to NJ. If you recall Saturday was a very windy rough day. It was right out of the west so we headed right into it as soon as we rounded Point Judith and it never changed, except to get a little stronger!
I am happy to report that the boat did not mind the weather at all, we dropped off a few 8 footers easy and there was no creaking or noises just forward motion! Obviously I was at the lower helm station getting smacked with waves but absolutely no problems. My crew however was not as durable, after about the 8th heave I figured i should get my brother on land. About that time the 3rd crew member lost it too.
We spent a night in Old Saybrook and continued on Saturday the rest of the way. We had favorable current and wind the whole day.
Highlander is sitting at our dock now and seems happy, although she is coming out of the water in 2-3 weeks.

Thanks ,
Craig

[RicM]

It was great to see you and your wife again (How was the Boat House? We get there a couple of times every season by boat, always good). I was a little dubious about you making it all the way to NJ in one daylight cycle, but I didn't want to appear negative. The boats can usually do what we ask of them, it's the people that are sometimes not up to the task. While I seldom experience the green wave, I have on extreme occaissions (usually associated with over exhuberance the night before) had the thrill of laughing at the deck, the technicolor yawn, ie: belly chumming, and it is no picnic. Boat motion is something that most folks will acclimate to over the course of the season, starting with short trips in the spring and adjusting to the sensation as the season progresses and the trips get longer and farther afield. Wave action tends to become more vigorous late in the season, and to simply jump aboard in October without any warm up and head out into 8 footers must have been tough on the crew. There is a perscription drug called Meclazine that is excellent and does not make one too sleepy (especially if chugged with a large Dunkin Donuts ice coffee), I keep a bottle on board for the tender ones, just remember that you have to take it before leaving the dock. Once you feel it, it's too late! I generally figure that 60-70 miles a day is a comfortable run, as there will be some part of everyday that always seems to be into the wind or a beam sea (much worse). Driving the crew too hard will always lead to danger and unhappiness (rent Mutiny on the Bounty over the winter and see if you don't start siding with Bligh after a few rough trips and a few unhappy crews). Old Saybrook is a great port. Restaurant there called "Livs" that will knock your socks off. Most important, you made it safe and sound and have a great season ahead of you next year. Hope to see you at the rendezvous.

[tomcat]

Thanks Ric for the pointers. I have a couple of Cummins for engines. I'll have to see what they recommend for antifreeze. When you say "sea water" I'm assuming you mean salt water. I'm in fresh water, but it probably still isn't good for the engine. And you would recommend changing out both? The mechanic is right straight out with winterizing, so I haven't had a chance to sit down and talk about the route we should take. Thanks again,
Tom

[RicM]

I'm assuming that your mechanic did a quick test of the coolant and found it lacking. If the coolant is not the proper mix you must determine how and why. Being in fresh water you would have less concern about corrosion obviously. I apologize, rereading I see that you have Cummins, but the principle remains the same, be sure you are using whatever Cummins recommends. I don't know the mix for your engines but the antifreeze mix specified for the Yanmars is actually 50% water, so an influx of a little "raw" water is not going to cause immediate damage, just dilute the antifreeze slightly, meaning it's freeze protection will be lowered slightly (only a big deal if the temp gets very low, which it does where you are). Running temp will not be a big indicator one way or the other. I would get the correct mix in the engine for storage then pressure test the heat exchanger for the suspect engine in place or send it out, depending on how much trouble it is to remove. If it holds pressure have it cleaned & flushed, if it doesn't, replace then repeat on the other side. It's a concern and should receive immediate attention, but a little fresh water getting into your coolant mix will not cause damage by itself, only if the coolant freezes hard in Feb and cracks your block, which is VERY bad. There are people that will, in a pinch, put a little fresh water into the coolant to top it off, and there are folks who read that you are are supposed to run 50-50 antifreeze/water, then buy premixed (already 50/50) coolant and mistakenly dilute it, making it 25/75.

When you are buying a used boat you have no guarantee that the previous owner(s) knew what the hell they were doing. Just because the coolant in the boat when you bought it was not the correct dilution does not mean the heat exchanger is shot, although it is one possible explanation of several. I always try to eliminate the cheapest, easiest answer first, then progress towards the more complicated, expensive solutions as the possibilities are eliminated. Your mechanic may find it hard to believe that a rational human would simply pour hose water into the cooling system of their engine and he may assume that dilute anti-freeze can only mean a leaking heat exchanger. Believe me, there are very few rational beings that own boats, and don't assume that the previous owner would never do such a thing.

[tomcat]

This is something that I'm having a problem understanding. As I mentioned before, I'm not mechanically inclined (have patience!), so digesting these things takes me a little longer. The mechanic who ran me through the boat before leaving Cos Cob in May made sure that I knew to check the three liquids...oil, transmission oil and antifreeze, which I did each time before starting up. The antifreeze was always topped right off. And it had the feeling of antifreeze,(to the touch of the finger). When it came to winterizing ( a different mechanic up north on the Hudson).he tested the antifreeze and said it was good to 20 degrees. He put in enough antifreeze in for what is recommended in this area. He then proceeded to say that the antifreeze went from one engine to the other, something that he has never seen before. He thought it was a very strange set-up. I guess my question is...being on Long Island Sound, where we bought it, in the water, for the winter, could it be possible that it was winterized for the 20 degree mark and that I don't have a problem with a heat exchanger letting in fresh water into the cooling system? Or is this something that I still don't totally understand?? (remember the patience thing!).

I' will be heading to Florida tomorrow for a few days, so I won't be logging on til I get back. Thanks again for your input. I so much appreciate it.I am truly learning more and more after going from a 24'er to the 40.
Have good weekend!

Tom