Maneuvering and Docking made easy with bow thruster?

[Torque]

I have never owned a boat with a single engine without an outdrive and that is why I'm leaning toward finding an Albin with an outdrive. There aren't many, but they exist. By the way, the outdrive models also have bow thrusters, so it can't get any easier to maneuver in tight quarters. I am aware of the down side of an outdrive, but would rather deal with the extra costs of maintaining an outdrive if the trade off was having a highly maneuverable boat.

Now, my question(s)...How easy is it to maneuver a 28' TE in tight quarters (with some wind) with a single V drive/rudder and a bow thruster? Is the technique to keep the rudder neutral and just let the thruster move the bow or is it a combination of both? When the bow thruster fails (which it will) is it a b**** to maneuver these boats without it?

Thanks for your input.

John

[fuenstock]

My Albin 28te is my first single screw boat, previous boats had been either outboard or stern drives. At first I was nervous of it's handling in tight quarters, but after some time I learned the nature of it's handling and I can say it handles better than an outboard or stern drive in my opionion. To me after learning a single screw, the outboard or stern drives feel squirrely to me. The single screw is very slow and steady in it's movement and very easy to anticipate it's motion when docking. Best thing is to practice and get good with out the help of the bow thruster. Over time you'll find that you don't need the thruster, but it's nice to have it for those just in case moments. You can spin a single screw albin in place 360 degrees to port very easly by working the transmission forward to reverse with the wheel turned hard to port. When pulling upto a dock it's easier to dock to starboard side, approach the dock at a slight angle and then when a few feet away put her in reverse and she'll suck right upto the dock no problem. Good luck, I would avoid a stern drive if shes staying in salty water.

[special k]

no worries with the standard albin set up. my new to me 28te is very agile around the docks.

[jcollins]

Torque,
Search the board. You will find many helpful posts about handling a single screw.

The first time I docked - Huh? It's not going where I want it to. Sharon said "what? are you a newbie"?

First season - Very apprehensive
Second season - Little nervous, but getting the hang of it.
Third season - This ain't so bad.
Fourth season - Nothing to it. The bow thruster can easily handle up to 30 seconds with no worries. Just allow time for it to spin down when changing direction.

Next year - Season five - What bow thruster?

My only reason for considering the i/o was shallow draft. I ran for two hours today and seldom had more than 10 or 12 feet of water.

[craw_daddy]

I usually back into a slip & find that the boat is very predictable -even with a breeze. I think it is because the bow is so deep, -it acts like a rudder when backing and the thruster impulses move you effoetlessly side -to-side. Pretty much you don't drift sideways too easily -& I have found that the thruster is ussually more than adequae to overcome any wind at the dock. I can spin the boat about midship by using a combination thruster and FWD/REV.

[mhanna]

Torque if you search the forums I put up some pictures of a IO 28, I drove just shy of Maine to see one. Having owned only IOs before I also wanted to stay with that, I was guessing that the IO AND the thruster would give me the ultimate in control. In talking to many people they also said you do not need the trouble of an IO, as I did not think it was that bad from prior boats I did not give that too much thought.
I ended up finding a deal on a 28TE with inboard. I was (as many) very concerned about controlling this larger (and what I though less controllable boat). There where a few days the first year where the wind was blowing and I wished I had an IO to pull my back where I wanted it.
This is my 3rd year with the boat and now knowing how it runs and how to predict where is going to go (the stern really walks to starboard in reverse at the docks no matter where the rudder is) I absolutely feel safer and in more control with this boat than my IO. As fuenstock points out The single screw is very slow and steady in it's movement and very easy to anticipate it's motion when docking.

I know some here say they do not need the bow thruster at all, and 3 guys in my marine have similar boats without them and they manage, but one day I lost the bow thruster (sheer pin broke) and it was breezy. Rather than gambling I brought it in bow first.
Honestly the IO may be better at maneuvering in close quarters (maybe) but when running, that large prop and keel make for one stable platform. There are always trade-offs.
Good luck in whatever you do, before you buy either though I suggest you drive them.

Matt

[Torque]

Thanks for everyone's input. It was very helpful.

John

[fairtide]

This ends two and a half boating seasons with our 28TE. The boat before this was the Albin 27 Sport Cruiser with the Nissan engine (78 hp). One of the first handling differences that I needed to adjust to was steering in tight quarters, such as docking alongside a finger pier. The 27 had a much larger rudder and it steered almost like a sailboat. Even without prop thrust, the boat turned sharply.
The rudder on the 2006 TE is smaller and less effective in making those corners. I have maintained that the thruster is not a luxury, though I have tried to learn to get by without it. With enough wiggle room in the marina, I can goose the fuel control (throttle) after putting the rudder hard over. Of course, too long a time at say 2000 rpm will cause a bit of gasping among those who are watching.
There is a pretty good starboard prop walk in reverse and I do take advantage of it when I can. If one backs into a slip and has not much room, this prop walk can be undesired, especially with a wind or current in the same direction.
After reading several replies above, I will try hard left rudder with forward and reverse engine to see what I may have missed. How do you back straight into a slip with starboard prop walk and no thruster, asuming no wind or current?
In open water, the boat does not turn sharply when on plane. "Sharply" is relative, so I mean that compared with I/O or outboard engines, the TE, at least in my opinion, makes wider turns. Handling is fine, but there is a learning curve and I think that I am still near the start of that curve.

[RicM]

I have written about this here before, but as the topic has come up again I'll free to bloviate further. I have found that the trick to handling these boats is to separate (at least mentally) rotational force and momentum from forward and backward force and momentum. I never use the wheel when docking, turn the helm hard to port and leave it alone. When you want counter clockwise rotation, a kick with the throttle forward will start the boat moving forward and rotating counter clockwise around it's center of gravity (the engine). A brief burst of reverse will counter the forward motion, but not kill the rotation as the rudder is useless when moving backward through the water, and the prop walk will pull the stern to starboard, slightly re-enforcing the counter clockwise rotation. Once you get the hang of this you can turn the boat 180 or 360 degrees in a little more than her own length, just by nicking it carefully back and forth from forward to reverse, IF the tide and the wind are not carrying you. What about if you want to go clockwise? Don't bother trying, it don't happen. Plan your docking maneuvers to involve only counter clockwise rotation, even if it involves a 90, 180, or 270, to get lined up. Add the bow thruster to the above equation, pushing the bow to port with bursts and you can rotate this boat in a way that will make all other captains envious.

Once you have the boat sort of lined up with the slip, start applying reverse in short bursts. Reverse will kill the rotational momentum and the boat should move backward in a more or less straight line. If you keep reverse engaged you will indeed get prop walk to starboard, which is why I just kick it into reverse for a second or two then back to neutral. If the prop ain't turning, it won't walk. Neutral is your friend. Anxiety and the need to "get this over with" is your enemy. Xanax can help (you or the admiral). There is never a reason to have the boat in gear and the thruster running at the same time. Use the thruster and forward (with the helm hard to port) to achieve rotation, then reverse to kill rotation and slide, stern gracefully, into your slip. Forward or reverse motion negates the effect of the bow thruster. Use the thruster to get lined up, then power to move the boat forward or back.

Docking a single screw boat is a mental exercise above all others. Physics, psychology, sociology, all wrapped up together.
For inspiration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdI3-LHiCng

[jcollins]

One of the best reasons for AOG is to gain knowledge and learn from the experiences of others. When RicM posted this information in the past the most difficult for me was to NOT touch the wheel. It just didn't make sense to me coming from an i/o. With an i/o I was constantly turning hard to port - hard to starboard and back again. After a few seasons I was very good at docking and impressing my friends. After learning to turn the wheel to port and leave it alone all of a sudden things fell into place. I am not shy with the bow thruster. That's what it is for. The key for me was to stay calm, don't rush, and don't be afraid to abort and start over. I would rather do that then hit another boat.

Never approach a dock faster than you are willing to hit it.

[Carl]

This year I am able to get in and out of my slip without the use of the bow thruster 90% of the time. The exception being wind or current. I still use the thruster in new situations or around the fuel docks, but very little. As others and John have said, and my slip is on the starboard side on approach, I start out with the rudder turned hard to port. By useing forward and reverse short bursts with the throttle, I spin the boat 90%. Once lined up between the pileings, I put it in reverse and cut the wheel to starboard. This will allow me to simply place it in forward for a second to arrest the starboard prop walk. Then its just a matter of reverse and forward until im in the slip. Between the heavy deep bow, and the keel, these boats do not "blow" around much at all.

[RobS]

Certainly helps having starboard approach. I approach my slip on my Port. Much easier with the thruster otherwise she's a bit stubborn to turn around and back in. I've got oodles of room to manuever so for my slip the thruster is a convenience not a necessity.