Does the diesel smell in the TE 28?

[mikeg]

I have spent many hours in sailboats, often with diesel inboards.My wife has an issue with diesel fumes making her sea sick.Now that TA 28 prices have come down I am considering one for fishing.Is the diesel odor less intense in a boat traveling at 20 kts ( I have never been in a fast moving diesel powered boat), than in a sailboat moving at 6 kts? Since the boat I am looking at has the mid ship engine do you get fumes thru the hatch or is there odor in the cabin? Wife says no diesel.Can an owner help me with this question?The boat I am looking at has a 96 Peninsular motor.Do any of the motors run cleaner?I apologize if this question is obvious or offends owners.

[Carl]

Welcome to the site. There are lots of owners here on this site with 28s that have the set up you discribe. I am sure they will chime in. My wife had the same concerns when I talked about going to a diesel boat. After reading your post and thinking back, its funny that we are ready to start our third season with the diesel, and I heard more complaints about smelling the fumes on our old gas powered boat, than I have ever heard since owning the Albin. It has been a non issue. While under way you should never smell a thing. The only time I have ever gotten a whiff, was at start up with a breeze on the stern. Once warmed up that for the most part goes away. Mine is a newer version with the Yanmar and the flush deck. I cant imagine the others are much different. Where are you located? Im sure that in a few months, someone here will be more than willing to take you and your wife for a ride.

[RicM]

Same concerns here, and no, there is no diesel smell when underway. Sailboats seldom move faster than the wind, and if the engine is running it's quite likely that you will get exhaust blown into the cockpit. A powerboat underway will VERY seldom be traveling directly down wind and at a speed less than the wind, and if that's the case it's easy enough to add 5 degrees to your course, then subtract 10 until you get where you want to go. The Pennisular motors are not the cleanest burning of the lot. I would check around the board and see which owners are close to you and see if you can get ride for yourself and the wife to try it out.

[mikeg]

Thanks so much for the quick replies.The idea of taking a ride with someone makes sense (we are on the Ches. Bay in Annapolis).The thought of buying an expensive boat without my wife checking it out is a setup for disaster.We frequently went out on a friends Catalina 36 with a 3 cylinder Universal and the smell was awful.The black stains on the stern speak to this.I was suprised how few albins have gas motors.Although not similar type boats Shamrocks seem to be 50/50 gas /diesel.One last question.When we looked at the pics,where do the guests sit underway? I assume folks use folding chairs but how do these stay on the deck when its choppy? Since they are fairly hefty,where are the chairs stored when you want to fish?

[jcollins]

Welcome. I have a 95 TE 28. The only time I can remember my wife complaining was when we were rafted up next to another boat and started the engine. We were untied in a few minutes and all was good again. I have noticed it when moving at idle speed but can't remember if anyone ever really complained about it.
As far as seating, the engine box is padded and there is room for deck chairs. I started with 2 heavy stainless chairs but then purchased two chairs with nylon seats that were lighter, with a wider profile. I store them in the quarter berth when not in use. When it is really choppy guests don't want to sit back there anyway. The ride is too wet. They just hang in the pilot house. My wife likes to sit in the cabin on long rides and read.

I'm on the Chesapeake just north of you at Seneca creek. I am always looking for a reason to take the boat out and would be happy to just about anytime. But, it's not in the water right now. We also have many members in the Annapolis area. Keep an eye on the board. You will see posts when the different members splash their boats. Remind me. Really.
One of the disadvantages of a sea trial, aside from putting up a deposit, is that you feel you are under pressure to make a decision. A leisurely ride is a completely different story. Since I'm not selling my boat, I'm just in it for the ride.

Once again, welcome aboard.

Here's a few pictures of folks seating arrangements. The picture of Great Gatsby is the flush deck like Carl's.

[Carl]

"I started with 2 heavy stainless chairs but then purchased two chairs with nylon seats that were lighter, with a wider profile."


Was the wider profile just for stability while under way????

[jcollins]

Was the wider profile just for stability while under way????

Good one!

[RobS]

I assume folks use folding chairs but how do these stay on the deck when its choppy?

Once you go for a ride and experience the heavy ride of the 28TE you will see that this is not a concern.

Since they are fairly hefty,where are the chairs stored when you want to fish?

The heavy white upholstered chairs create a stowage problem. They are heavy and bulky and can cause damage if you try to get them down below. I immediately switched over to 2 of the the lighter ones like John mentions and they store easily behind the helm seat with a bungee or down below in the aft bunk.

[mikeg]

Thanks again.I'll have my wife read these postings and we'll start talking.Its going to snow here tommorrow so I'm still in the dreaming stage of this venture.If you were buying a 28 TA and had the choice would you go diesel or gas? If I buy and older boat with a shot engine how big a deal is it to repower with gas? I'm looking at a repo boat, so that may be a possibility.Hey,great pics of the boat.

[RicM]

There have been no gas 28TE's factory made, to my knowledge, since the 70's. Those were very early versions with a I/O leg and a different hull design (semi-displacement). The advantages of a diesel over a gas engine in boats from about 28' and up are obvious, and the only reason that gas engines are still put into production boats above 28-30' is initial cost. Operating costs, fuel efficiency, safety and yes, odor, are all better with modern diesel engines than gas. Your experience with ancient diesel sailboat engines has nothing to do with modern diesel powered boats. That said, the Pennisular diesel, did have a reliability issue in earlier life when it was made by GM (go figure). Later Pennisular diesels are quite reliable, although reputed to be a bit noisier and smellier than the Cummins and Yanmar powered boats. Get the wife out on one, there are plenty of owners on this board in the Annapolis area, and I'm sure they will step up and give you a ride once spring arrives. Believe me, once you try diesel you will never go back!

[mikeg]

Ric,When did the peninsular engines get more reliable? I know this topic has been discussed extensively but many older albins used the engine.I also read on Pascoes boat review site that diesels are quite expensive for routine maintanace/any truth to that? He mentions that they are extremely sensitive to cooling system problems.

[chiefrcd]

Well, I've never been on a diesel boat that didn't smell of diesel exhaust fumes at times. No internal combustion engine ever made is 100% efficient, so there has to be by-products of combustion....that is what you smell. Mine is a 1999 Yanmar and if I'm going down wind and the wind speed is faster than I'm running ,the diesel exhaust fumes are evident in the cockpit and the pilot house. I troll a lot during striper season and the same happens.... up wind I'm fine...down wind I'm surrounded by the lovely smell of diesel exhaust.

[RobS]

Ric,When did the peninsular engines get more reliable? I know this topic has been discussed extensively but many older albins used the engine.

From 1996-1998 the GM block was drilled slightly out of spec and has resulted in a few cases of cracked blocks. Usually those boats were ran hard, etc. I think starting around 2000 Peninsular Engines stopped using GM to supply the blocks. Unfortunately, The Albins you would probably be looking at may likely be in the 96-98 era. 1999 and up you'd start seeing more Yanmar boats. Search "Peninsular" on this site and you will find more info. You can call Peninsular with an engine serial number and they will tell you if that engine is from that era could potentially become a problem.

I also read on Pascoes boat review site that diesels are quite expensive for routine maintanace/any truth to that? He mentions that they are extremely sensitive to cooling system problems.

Yes, there is "some" truth to that, at least you'll only have one in a 28TE. Any increased cost to maintain the diesel is certainly out-weighed by it's fuel economy and other benefits mentioned above by Ric. As far as coolant system, keep your zincs 50% or better and watch your temperature at all times. An increase in temp could mean heat exchanger starting to clog, etc. A Rydlyme flush is an easy DIY task and not expensive. You can search that on this sight to.

[jcollins]

I also read on Pascoes boat review site that diesels are quite expensive for routine maintanace

Who is this guy? I have seen his name mentioned quite a bit and it seems that he never has anything good to say about any brand. I came from gas to diesel and I'm very surprised at the low maintenance involved with a diesel. There is no spring tune-up. Check the oil. Change the fuel filters. Start.
Search the board for user Tomcat Rio. He had repowered his TE with a Peninsular. If I recall, he had posted the expense and documented his fuel burn numbers, etc.

If you don't purchase before the rendezvous in June, you should come and visit. There will be at least 10 boats there and another couple that is considering Albin. Deale isn't far from Annapolis is it?

The previous owner of my boat kept Afterglow on that peninsula at Round Bay on the Severn. Just behind a marina. I think it was Smith's marina. The pictures in the link of my signature are from Ego Alley.

[RicM]

Ahhh, the infamous David Pascoe.....
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/
Mr Pascoe is an extremely experienced yacht surveyor, and an extremely opinionated writer on boats, boat design etc. His observations are pretty much dead-on, the opinions he draws from those observations can often be disputed by reasonable people. If you read his book on Mid Sized Power Boats (http://www.yachtsurvey.com/mid_size_power_boats.htm), which I have, you will learn an awful lot about what to avoid in purchasing a boat. He does not review the Albin 28 TE very highly because of coring in the hull below the water line, and that is a deal breaker for him. Coring is controversial because it has often been done badly. Albin USUALLY did it right. The major thing you want to look out for is through hulls of any type that were not done by the factory, as there is a right & wrong way to install ANYTHING through the cored area of a hull. Done correctly these fittings are probably better than drilling through a solid hull. Done incorrectly they can lead to water soaking the core and eventual de-lamination. There, are you thoroughly scared yet? Well by the time you are done reading one of Pascoe's books you'll want a survey of the next cruise ship you step foot on before casting off. The irony is that in almost every other aspect of Pascoe's criteria for boat design, the TE series is at or near the top of the list. The TE has excellent deck hardware, wide side decks, plenty of freeboard, plenty of flat, safe walking surfaces fore and aft, structurally, it is extremely well to over built (read his rant on windows then get on the roof of a 28TE and jump up and down). The mechanical systems are simple, well laid out, and easy to understand & work on, etc, etc.
The issue of gas vs diesel has been debated for years and will never be completely solved. The general consensus is that gas is best up to about 28-30 feet, above that, diesel is pretty much preferred. Me, I never saw the logic of taking the largest, heaviest, most expensive part of a boat and hanging it on a bracket 3 feet aft of the transom. With gas inboards you are most often talking I/O's and the failure of the rubber boot that seals an I/O leg is the most often cause of boats sinking bar none. The Yanmar, inboard, with skeg protecting the prop is the drive train of choice for the kind of boating and fishing I do. It ain't fast but it's comfortable, sea worthy, and reliable. I hit a submerged shipping crate, dead on, at speed off Block Island last year and only suffered a ding the size of a quarter in the skeg. It would have ripped an outboard right off the boat.
There's no perfect boat.