Battery Management?

[krc]

Hi guys - how do you determine when to replace batteries? On my TE36, I have two "switches" off-1-both-2, one that appears to be for the engine and one that is for the house.
I just noticed that I am unable to start the engine with the house on "1" and the engine on "2", or vice versa. I can only start when the engine selector is "both". Now, I usually do start with "both" and am not sure if only 1 or 2 would have started it - but I suspect it did. I do apparently have a charger hooked up that I assume is charging all the batteries (how can I prove this? hard to trace the wires).

Interesting thing is that when I try to start the engine on "1", the voltage on the CAT digital reader is 11V and on "2" it is 12. When I flip between one and two on the panel for the line voltage on the DC side, it is 12.2V and about 12.6V. When the charger is going, both appear to be set at 13.5V or so... but the charger really seems to only trickle as the amp load when everything is off may be 2AMPs for a bit then drop down to a very load amperate (<1).

(1) These are GEL batteries (according to how the charger is set - need to open to confirm), so how long should these last? Boat is 2004.
(2) Any ideas on the CCA for the starter on the 3126B? Can't seem to find any spec on this.
(3) Any easy way to tell which set of batteries is "1" or "2"? I have one batter port aft, and two startboard aft. I also seem to have one right under the swim deck for the generator.
(4) Can anyone explain how the selector switches are wired? This is a mess - it looks like the starter has one lead going to a negative bus, and the other going to the the "engine" selector but then there are cross connects between the two switches. Any references would be helpful.
(5) When the engine is running, does the "selector switch" also determine which batteries are getting charged, or is this wired directly?
(6) Is there a cheap load tester for the batteries available? These are huge ... not easy to just take to Kragen and test.
(7) What is a good marine battery, probably want same batteries that can be good for both deep cycle and high output for starting. Really don't want wet, so assume gel or ?

Again, neophyte here...

Thanks....

[zinbaad]

I was kind of thinking the same thing . All charging? 1-2 or all when engines running, I think I have the same batteries & set up. << listening

[jcollins]

Hi guys - how do you determine when to replace batteries? On my TE36, I have two "switches" off-1-both-2, one that appears to be for the engine and one that is for the house.
I just noticed that I am unable to start the engine with the house on "1" and the engine on "2", or vice versa.
Thanks....

A easy way to tell them apart is to disconnect the one port side. If nothing works on 1 or 2, you'll know which side of the switch it's connected to. Then you can assume the two starboard batteries are for starting. Again..."assume". I have the Peninsular and they recommend two batteries for starting. I don't know what CAT recommends. Personally I wouldn't want to have to start in the BOTH position. If I'm anchored I know that I can run the house in position 1 overnight and switch to position 2 to start. You also have the benefit of the generator which could charge up a weak battery.
Five seasons with factory installed batteries is probably good. I purchased the Odyssey batteries last year and have had no problems. Pricey, but good warranty and reputation.
I've seen mention, on the board, of testers you can purchase in the 30-50 price range to check the batteries? Not a bad idea considering the cost of your boat.

On My boat it's
#1 - House
#2 - Starting (two batteries)
#1 and #2 are isolated from each other. I can fully discharge #1, switch to #2 and start the boat.
BOTH - While running to keep the charge
#1 OR #2 when on shore power.

[krc]

Ok - the two batteries hooked in parallel are pack 2 and the single is pack 1. The generator has its own smaller battery - looks the size of a car battery. It looks like I can run the bow thruster, panel, and windlass when house is either 1 or 2 or both.
There is also no power loss when switching from 1-both-2. There is a warning on the switch not to turn to off when engine is running.

One other thought occurred to me - since the bridge and engine controls are DC and needed start the engine, I really need to be able to have a battery pack supporting both the the house and engine load TOGETHER in order to start in case the house (1) goes down. Still, any ideas if 1 battery should be sufficient to start engine and run necessary house systems? No idea.

Battery label says "Concord", sealed lead acid. Not much else. Not sure what "size" battery these are but the dimmensions are roughly 20"x11"x9". Any ideas?

Thanks...

[Veebyes2]

There are sooo many ways of wiring banks oof batterys. There is no guarantee that Albin did the same for every boat but I have the same 2 switches, the same 3 banks of batterys which are also gel cell.

When I bought the boat, 4 years old, I was faced with the same mystery of what setting did what. It was a simple matter to try each setting & start removing connections at the battery post & use the volt meter on the panel.

In my 32 switch #1 controls battery bank #1 & #2. Switch #2 controls battery bank #3 & links to switch #1. This way any bank or combination thereof can be used for anything. The 'house' panel is not separate from the engine feed.

Generally we run on both switches set on 'both', charging all banks together. If we will be shut down for more than an hour or so, the first thing done after shutting the engine off is to switch the batterys to whatever bank we choose to use for 'house'.

It is just a matter of understanding what is what in your system. Think of 12V DC as your home water supply. The power goes through the wires & it can only go one way.

Get yourself a battery load tester from NAPA or someplace, about $30-$40. Great tool to have. Gel cells are great batterys. Mine are 9 years old & still test good but my next set will be AGMs. They accept a charge rapidly like a wet cell but also have the deep draw capability & no maintenance of the gel cell. Cost about the same as gel cell.

[Mariner]

It took me a while to figure out our battery system, and prior to doing so, there were a number of times we were unable to start the engine, for a number of reasons.

The first thing I will say is, Albin seems to have built each boat differently, and then, each dealer added unique options and custom systems on top of that. So what holds true for one boat, will not necessarily hold true for another.

Our 2003 shipped from the factory with two 8D size deep-cycle marine batteries mounted in Todd boxes to starboard of the steering gear. The boxes were labeled "House" and "Engine". In the cabin, under the settee, there are two Perko switches, also labeled "House" and "Engine". The terminals for the "2" position for each battery go to the respective batteries. The terminals for the "1" position, are connected to each other. That means that, when you place both switches on the "2" position, the engine is being supplied with power from the engine battery only, and the 12volt panel is being supplied with power from the house battery only. Placing them both on "both" ties the two systems together, sharing the load, and charging. Placing them both on "1" effectively shuts them both off, just like placing them on "off". Generally speaking, you will always run with both switches in the "both" position, because house loans are significant when running, and need the charge coming from the alternator to meet the demand. The Cat engine is computer controlled, and that computer is wired to the "hosue" system (even though the starter is wired to the "engine" battery), so it will draw that battery down very quickly, and kill the engine when it drops below 12 volts. So it is CRITICAL that both switches are on "both" when running. Whenever you are not running the engine, or charging from shorepower, you MUST isolate the batteries. The extremely large gauge of wiring used in this system will equalize the two batteries very quickly. If you are anchored for the afternoon and are running accessories like the refrigerator, the stereo, or even lights, you can draw the hosue battery down surprisingly quickly. It may stay well above 12 volts, but the true amps available will diminish quickly. Light loads like these don't require a lot of amps, so you can run them all night. But cranking the motor requires a LOT more amps. Even though the voltmeter may read 13 volts, there won't be enough CCA's to turn over the engine. So, for this reason, if you don't isolate that start battery from the house battery IMMEDIATELY after shutting down the engine, you may find yourself stranded and unable to start the engine. My father tends to forget to do this and frequently has trouble starting the engine. I, on the other hand, am meticulous about it, and haven't had a problem starting since discovering this little gem.

former electrical.jpg

The problem can be compounded if you have a bad house battery that won't hold a charge, like we did. Leaving the two batteries connected would cause the start battery to drain in a matter of seconds.

As for the charging system, ours has a two bank charger mounted on the aft bulkhead above the steering gear. It is blue, and I believe it is a Professional Mariner brand. When connected to shorepower, and turned on, it charges both the house and engine battery simultaneously, regardless of whether they are linked by the switches or not. There is also a small 12 volt battery for the generator, connected via a battery isolator to the house battery. it charges whenever the hosue bank charges, and is used only to start the generator.

To make things more complicated, the dealer installed a third battery bank on the port side (four golf-cart batteries), forward of the generator. This was originally used only to supply a dealer installed inverter/charger with power. It was independently charged by this unit as well (a Freedom 25) only via shorepower, and could not be charged by the engine, nor could it be used to power the 12volt panel or start the engine. I changed this by altering the wiring and switching a little bit. Now, the "house" switch can be used to select either the "house" deep cycle battery, or the golf-cart bank, and the two can still be interconnected to the engine battery by selecting "both" on the "engine" switch. Due to the difference in voltage, (deep cycles run at 14, the golf bank runs at 12), we do not select the "golf" bank while interconnected unless needed for an emergency start.

updated electrical.JPG

[zinbaad]

oh boy,, now i am really confused!!

[Mariner]

oh boy,, now i am really confused!!

Haha, I totally understand. I wish I could explain it better. I think the wiring diagram I posted is the best way to explain it. But again, it's so important to remember that each boat is different. All my information is good for is gaining some insight into how Albin designed their systems. Hopefully it helps someone look at their own system and make some sense of it.

[joreyn]

I have a similar setup on Blue Moon. Like Mariner, i have a start battery, with its own Perko switch, but unlike mariner (if I understood correctly) I have a third Perko switch which controls the inverter bank.

1 8d starting battery
2 pairs of golf cart batteries for the house (as of today)
2 pairs of golf cart batteries for the inverter

Before this week the house had a single 6d battery rated at 100 AH. What would happen is when I was on the hook, the refrigerator would shut off after an hour or so due to low voltage. That was really frustrating, and I couldn't figure out why. This week we traced all the wiring and figured out that we only had the single 6d for the house. In addition, all of the batteries were past their useful life, although I never had a starting problem.

Now I have around 500AH for the house, a separate bank for the inverter, and the start battery - all new. Should be good to go and no more confusion about which set does what.