Converting an A-motor cruiser to a motor sailer

[joebuz]

Hi, I am considering buying an Albin 25 that does not have a sail on it. I would appreciate any input about adding a mast and boom. Are the sailing model hulls different? Good idea? Bad idea? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Joe

[jcollins]

Joe,
I know nothing about sailing. But, you do bring up a good point. Is the hull design different? How about the keel? Is the sail on the A-25 for true sailing or just stabilzing? I don't know.
Go to the featured sites section here and click on the link for the Yahoo group. Those guys would know all the answers.

Good Luck

[Mariner]

Boy, that's a major modification. I'm not familiar with the old A boats, but I'd be surpised if they had suitable keels. That's a MAJOR thing to add, since a keel alone isn't sufficient, it has to have ballast and that requires strengthening the hull to support the load (thousands of pounds of lead). Plus, sailing boat decks need to be able to support the lateral loads of the mast, unless you plan to deck-step it, which means you need to support the deck from underneath. Also, sailboats have strategically placed fiberglass to support the load of the stays as well, which I'm sure the A boats don't have.

I mean, sure you can add a little mast to any boat with a small sail and pick up a knot or two downwind, but the dangers just aren't worth it. You run the risk of not just mechanical failure, but instability at sea. Gusts of wind can capsize a boat in a flash and if the hull isn't designed to cope with and react do it, you'll be making a call to the USCG and they won't be referring you to Sea-Tow or Vessel Assist.

[joebuz]

Thanks for the input. From what I understand, the Albin 25 was made in two versions... Motor Cruiser and Motor Sailer. I have seen pictures of the Sailer but not an actual boat. I was just wondering if the hulls, decks, etc were interchangable.

[Mariner]

I have no firsthand knowledge, but I would be surprised if they would have spent the extra labor and materials to beef the boat up for sailing gear if it wasn't intended for it.

[gregor]

Hello
a friend and myself have a 1977 albin 25 delux berthed in Brisbane,ca.
she was rigged at one time w/sail.
we are also considering making her a true motor/sailer but need to get original sail rig specs.
this boat has same hull as non sail albins so I think that the sail rig was just an option.
Can anyone steer me to sail info? We want to keep her original and plan to sail Sea of cortez next year
Our albin has a three cyl volvo and we know we have one of the best boats even made.
cheers
gregor

[gregor]

Hello
Here is orig sales info for Albin 25
http://www.ocean7.com/tortoise/albin_brochure2.pdf
We have a 25 delux that had been rigged as motor sailor. Our hull is single keel w/ no bilge keels. The bilge keels were /are popular in europe where tides leave boats on bay bottom @ low tide and bilge keels keep boat level.
There is an Albin 25 Club in Sweden and the site is in Swedish and English
http://www.albin25.se/forumen/display_forum.asp?fid=5
more info at http://www.ybw.com/mby/boats/10202223.htm
We are planning to rig our Albin 25 so if you get addl info on rigging let me know.
note on last site given they say that hull could and was rigged per buyer request and seems same hull used for both sail and power.
Also remember that mast is set on coach roof right on top of support pole used to hold table.
Anyway hope this info helps you out.
Drop a line to the club in Sweden and I am sure they will verify that your hull can be rigged w/ sailes
cheers
Gregor

[gregor]

O I forgot to tell you that if you contact Albin Marine in US there is a lady that told me she had sailed on Albin 25's in Sweden
gregor

[Conrad Nay]

Hi there...

We (brother & I) have a 1972 Albin 25 motorsailor and would be happy to answer any questions. Some comments: the keel was not modified for the MS; unless the conditions are just right, you probably are better off motoring, although setting the mainsail can work wonders in a beam sea; if you have a bow anchor roller, it will need to be offset to accomodate the forestay; the shrouds are very helpful in negotiating the walk to the bow; the compression post in the forecabin impinges on usable space; and having a mast gives you benefits such as an elevated VHF or radar antenna, placement of a courtesy flag, or hoisting a temporary anchor light.

[DaveP]

I have mentioned it on this site before but if you Google "Per Brohall Albin 25 handbook" on page 30 through 32B there is all the information about the sail rig on the Albin 25 including detailed diagrams (Fig.37) of how to reinforce the deck for the fore & aft stays and shrouds. There is also (Fig.36) a diagram of the entire sail plan, mast placement, running & standing rigging, etc.. As mentioned in other emails you have gotten the hull is identical to the straight motor Albin 25. The only thing not covered in the handbook (but I've seen it elsewhere) is the installation of a compression post under the mast. An area of concern for me was the stability of the Albin 25 with the sail rig. The handbook has extremely detailed charts and diagrams of the stability curve and the Albin 25 with the sq. ft. of sail designed by Albin is extremely stable with no threat of capsize. Also in(Fig. 36) are the dimensions of the sails (jib, genoa, mail) in sq. meters. Make sure you look carefully at what units are used in all diagrams and charts as you could end up 6.50 ft. mast instead of the 6.50 meter mast specified. The Albin will sail, according to the handbook at 70 degrees to the wind direction, not great but a life saver if you loose the engine off a lee shore. The boat won't tack through the wind, so you have to do a controlled gybe to change tacks. Also according to the handbook the boat will sail at 4kts. with the wind abeam or astern of 10kts. and faster of course as the wind increases. A limiting factor on the sail area is the size of the rudder that would be overpowered by additional sail area. I have been thinking of mounting a kick-up sailboat rudder from a twenty five Catalina on the stern of the Albin 25 to increase rudder area and better control the boat under sail, or in a tight motoring situation. The extra rudder could also serve as a back up in case of a failure in the boats steering system. Hope this helps.

[Conrad Nay]

Some further comments:
Looking at my previous note, I was more negative about the A25's sailing abilities than intended. The previous owner had some very enjoyable sails on Vagabond. As an example he spent an entire day sailing from Vancouver BC to Pender Harbour, and reports that it was a phenomenal day on the water. But it won't win races unless you happen to be racing another Albin 25 MS under sail and the other guy messes up!
Recently we were out in a 3'-4' following sea (no sails up) when a large wave (it was VERY large) hit us on the port quarter and broached us. We were well over on our starboard side (rail under, that sort of thing) but only momentarily, and then we were up and back on course. The point here is that the Albin can go over a long way and recover with no fanfare. I'm not suggesting that the motorsailor would be overpowered, but it is nice to know that there is a huge safety margin if you do go over for any reason.
I recently saw an Albin 25 Motorsailor that was rigged differently than ours, in that the mast was stepped directly in front of the windshield, and the forestay was anchored probably 18" aft of the bow. I.e., the entire rig was about 18" aft of our factory setup. No idea why.
And, we have reluctantly put Vagabond up for sale because we need a larger boat. We learned the hard way that you cannot cruise for a week on an Albin 25 with six people aboard. You just can't.
Lying Maple Bay B.C. if anyone is interested.
I'd be very interested to hear how the larger Catalina rudder works out, if it becomes a viable option.