Haul, Clean, Paint, Launch - LEAK

[RobS]

Mine's a 2000 and it's there. When I was speaking to Kenny at Standish he seemed quite suprised when I explained that one went out without the plate. I think it's gonna be a real rarity for it not to be installed.

[muscrat]

Buck Algonquin looks to have a pretty good selection of parts.. If you download the 2008 catalog they start on about page 89.

[mhanna]

I looked through pics of boats when I was buying. I found a 1995 that does not have a plate. Not sure if they were trying something new or did they just run out.....

[joe.baar]

Mine was just hauled and splashed a couple of days before this issue surfaced. It does not have a backing plate.

Odd, though, why anyone would use aluminum down there. I understand it bends relatively easily but with my bronze rudder, gudgeon and prop, stainless shafting and trim tabs, and 7 chunks of zinc all within 3 feet of each other I'd think adding aluminum to this mix in salt water would be an invitation to disaster. Or maybe science just isn't as important as it used to be.

[RobS]

Is it aluminum or a bronze alloy

[chiefrcd]

It seems, just looking at what's posted here, that maybe Albins built before 2000 do not have the plate in question. I've looked at several newer ones here in Deltaville and all 2000 and after have the plate.

I was very concerned that first, water could easily get between the outer hull and inner hull and I was certainly not happy having the four bolts that held the stuffing box in place, set in the fiberglass hull. ( See previous pictures). I discussed this with my fiberglass technician and the boatyard owner and here is what they came up with, from the beginning:

Once the hole was clean and dry the marina cut out about 1.5 inches of foam and then filled the space between the hull in the area around the rudder post with resin/epoxy filler. This was part of fiberglassing the tube into the boat. This effectively sealed the hull. They then removed the old carriage bolts from the hull. They build a epoxy/resin/FRP Fiberglass backing plate and fiberglassed this to the bottom of the boat and re-installed longer carriage bolts thru this plate and into the stuffing box. I was assured that the repair was bullet proof. It sure looks sturdy and tough. Again, I don't want to be a chicken little...but if you have a older Albin 28, just take a good look at the area in question. On my boat it was a weak link that could have easily resulted in the sinking of the boat or at the very least a lot of water intrusion between the hull's. I'm tickled that we found it when we did...I'm not tickled at it's probably going to cost me several thousand dollars to fix what appears to be a real design flaw, but that's boating.....

[Denis]

I need to bring this topic back for a few more questions.
I checked under my boat and I do not have the plate everyone is talking about. As viewed from underneath, I do have some sort of sleeve around the rudder shaft.
My questions are:
1. When I tap the fiberglass around the rudder post, it sounds very solid, if it is solid glass or plywood, why would I need a plate on the bottom?

2. What is keeping the water from getting behind the sleeve that I see around the rudder shaft?

3. If it has not leaked in 14 years, why would it start now?

I have never removed any rudder, so I am not very familiar with the workings or hull to mount designs. Thanks in advance for the help. Denis

[Merry Kate]

Denis -

I dove & checked the other day and I have a sleeve around the rudder post too (no plate) on my '97. Not as robust looking as Chief's repair, but has worked well for 12 yrs so will leave well enough alone.

[rt11002003]

I tend to be cautious. Losing a rudder and having a hole in the hull can spoil one's whole day. Recently a large sailboat lost its rudder off the East Coast and sank in a very short period time leaving the crew in the water until rescued. In the past couple of weeks another sailboat, off shore in the Gulf, lost its keel. It sank, one crew died helping others off the boat and the crew was in the water for more than 20 hours before rescue. In neither of these incidents has it been determined the reason for the failures.

If one is concerned about the lack of a plate and the possibility of water rotting the hull core then checking the area with a moisture meter might help the situation.

Gene

[Russell]

My 97 TE has no plate either but the plate appears to give support to the bolts rather than blocking water entry. The rudder stuffing box has sealant to prevent leaks and that may break down over time or a severe blow might loosen it. The plate would help to stabilize the rudder post but I would like it to be flush with the hull. Did you have any severe goundings and did you watch the lift operator when he set your boat down on the hard?

[chiefrcd]

1. When I tap the fiberglass around the rudder post, it sounds very solid, if it is solid glass or plywood, why would I need a plate on the bottom?

2. What is keeping the water from getting behind the sleeve that I see around the rudder shaft?

3. If it has not leaked in 14 years, why would it start now?

I'll give you my best answers:

1. Mine was solid too, but I still had water intrusion. The outside hull is about 3/8" thick, the foam is maybe 1", I saw no wood of any kind. I have no idea how thick the inside hull is, but keep in mind that my issue was that the hole didn't appear to be finished in any way. Only packed with some type of sealer.

2. Check out Edson's website on rudder parts and get a feel for what is out there in the market. Also if you check the drawings that are posted here on the website you will find the drawing of the entire steering system...showing a backing plate.

3. Mine had not leaked in 10 years...but it started....and I took on a considerable amount of water in 12 hours.

4. No groundings at all and there appeared to be no damage to any of the components of the entire rudder assembly.

Keep in mind...I had NO water leaking from the stuffing box....that was not the issue....I had water coming in the boat from around the outside of the stuffing box.

I realize that lots of boats probably do not have a plate, but I also realize that apparently Albin figured it was a issue, cause the started putting them on later models.

I'm certainly not advocating that everyone do what I did. I had to do what I thought would make the boat safe and sound. I might have been able to stop with fiberglassing the tube in place...but all 4 bolts showed signs of water seeping by the threads ( threads that span the space between the hulls). I would have been happy to find a " Albin" backing plate but that just didn't happen.

Lastly, the small amount of drag cause by this plate isn't going to be much worse than the factory installed one, or the two depth finders, or sea strainers or the keel and rudder shoe. There is certainly nothing aerodynamic about the bottom of a Albin......

[Denis]

Thanks for your reply, I will probably drop the rudder in the fall when the boat is hauled and see what kind of situation I have, and while I am there I will probably install a backing plate to spread the load from the bolts.
You never know where the trouble will show up but you can rest assured, if you own a boat there are problems you never would have imagined.
Good luck with your boat, I hope you finally get the chance to enjoy the good weather. Denis

[poillon1]

Regarding your statement of:"The yard has now filled in all the cavity with epoxy resin and has glassed a tube into the rudder post hole so that there is no further "raw" hole in the boat. There work is to ABYC standards so I'm happen that we found it when we did. Had this occurred on a trip or during a period when the boat sits for long periods of time, I'm sure there would have been damage between the hull."

We wondered if anyone else has found it advisable to add a glass tube? We do have the plate. We are pulling the rudder and the engine early this week to replace the rear transmission seal. We're taking the opportunity to get the bilge pristine again and do maintainence, hose replacements, and general clean up work at the same time. Would not be any problem to add the tube as a precaution for the future if that is advisable.

Any and all advise is always appreciated. (28 TE with 330 Cummins)
Hope everyone has a great Easter! We're looking forward to being in the water within a week!

[ebbtide]

Oh no,
I don't think our Albin 31 TE (1996) has the backing plate either. We took on water yesterday while cruising at 17 knots and it was the raw water intake hose spurting like a gyser. I'm pretty sure i didn't see any backing plate when i was painting the bottom so thanks for the tip. Looks like one more thing to fix and how i wish i had read this before we launched the boat. This forum is invaluable. Thank you so much!
Lori

[creekman]

Right after we started using the T28 , the rear bilge light came on . I found water coming out around the rudder shaft and called the marina. They told me to tighten the packing nut and that stopped the leak . It has been ok since 2005.

Your message also reminded me of water in the bilge after hauling and painting. When they put the boat in the water , the bilge was full of water. The pumps had not come on and I had to hold the switches over to evacuate the water. We were told that it had rained alot also. A corroded fuse was found and replaced at that time. Later when I returned home , a leak in the water pump was found in addition.
More recently my bilge pumps failed when a cold raw hose ruptured. T28, yanmar 315, flush deck