Haul, Clean, Paint, Launch - LEAK

Post by **chiefrcd** » Thu May 29, 2008 3:16 pm

Wow, what a surprise I had. My marina hauled and completed my annual bottom cleaning and painting. Candy and I went down last Friday after they launched the boat and found about 15 gal. of water in the bilge. The boat had sat on land for a few weeks in lots of T storms so I didn't suspect anything else. I pumped out the bilge and we went to bed. The next morning I had the same amount of water in the bilge so I knew we had a leak somewhere. After much searching I found that the leak was coming from around the stuffing box....no...not the stuffing box....from around the stuffing box. This was only determined by having the boat re-hauled and several mechanics look at it. They blocked the boat and later that week pulled the rudder out to check what the problem was. Here's the surprise. You would think that there would be some type of sleeve, fitting, thru-hull, in place where the rudder post passes through the boat. There was NOTHING there except some type of sealer over the foam core of the boat. Most of that was missing and apparently water had just come into the hull and found its way up past the stuffing box. The best way I can describe it would be to say that they drilled a hole in the bottom of the boat. This left the outside hull, the foam between the inside hull, and the inside hull a raw hole. Then it looks like they packed the drilled hole with some type of sealer ( 3m 4200???) but I'm not sure and stuck in the rudder post. There are 4 large screws that go through the bottom of the hull equal distance around the rudder hole. These bolt up to the stuffing box and hold it in place but there was no tube, fitting, or thru hull for the rudder post to pass though. The marina is now fiberglassing a tube in place for the rudder post to pass through. Their comment to me was that it looked like someone took a short cut on that installation. I have no clue if this was something missed during manufacturing or a actual design flaw. I wanted to pass this on to the group, so you may check this area on your next haul out. Watch the boat when it's pulled and if you have a lot of water running out around the rudder post....you may well have the same problem.

Post by **Mariner** » Thu May 29, 2008 5:58 pm

Whoa. I sincerely hope that this is not how Albin built all it's boats. That is a major design flaw or oversight of some sort. Foam cores below the waterline should always be sealed from the water with fiberglass. Water intrustion into the foam is a cause for major concern, even if it is supposedly closed-cell. Water can still get in.

Post by **Denis** » Fri May 30, 2008 6:55 am

Chief, what year is your boat?
Sounds like they really took a short cut with that. For a while I thought water was getting around my rudder housing also. I installed new packing in the spring and now I don't have any water leaking in, but if you had that problem I should check it on mine also. Do I need to remove the rudder to check for this situation, or can I take out the bolts and drop it enough to see? Den

jcollins · Post by **jcollins** » Fri May 30, 2008 4:27 pm

Chief,
This could be cause for concern. Can you explain what a novice, such as myself, would begin to look for? I always have a some water in the bilge when the boat has been sitting. (even on dry days)

Thanks,

Post by **AlanD** » Sat May 31, 2008 7:37 am

Chief, that is a concern too. My boat sits for days in the water and always bone dry in the bilge (knock on wood). Something going on down there, would start with a quick check of water fittings, then turn off a water intake at a time and let her sit, to see if the problem goes away. If you can isolate it lake that, you can narrow down the leak to the HVAC, Water Cooling, Baitwell, etc....

Post by **chiefrcd** » Sat May 31, 2008 1:59 pm

John, and everyone. I can't give a definitive answer on what to specifically look for. I have had water leaking from the stuffing box, but that responds to tightening the packing nut and quits. This was a steady flow of water, albiet a small amount to look at it, it was about 15 gallons in a 12 hour period. We pulled the boat and you could not tell by just looking at it. The amount of water that continued to come out around the rudder was the most significant indication that there was water in the hull. My boat is a 1999 and I always heard that it was a balsa core hull. I saw no wood in the area around the rudder post or stuffing box. We let it set out until it was dry and no longer showed any evidence of water. They used a hammer to tap around to determine if there was any "sounding" issues and a moisture meter to determine if there was any moisture and it all was good to go. The yard has now filled in all the cavity with epoxy resin and has glassed a tube into the rudder post hole so that there is no further "raw" hole in the boat. There work is to ABYC standards so I'm happen that we found it when we did. Had this occurred on a trip or during a period when the boat sits for long periods of time, I'm sure there would have been damage between the hull. As it is I'm confident that it was caught in time and the problem corrected the proper way. I have NO clue as to what this is going to cost me but it might we worth it on your next haul out to pay close attention to the rudder area and to make sure you don't have a lot of water flowing out around the rudder post. In fact, I'm guessing that there should be virtually no water running out as there is only a tiny crack between the rudder post and the boat and not much room for water to be trapped.
** EDIT NOTE** I just looked at the "rudder" schematic that can be found on this website and it shows a backing plate which appears to be on the outside of the hull. I had no backing plate on my boat, nor was there a backing plate inside the hull. You might want to look for this. when you're boat is hauled. I only had 4 screws which appear to be embedded in the fiberglass.

Post by **RobS** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:58 pm

Chief,
Did your rudder mount look like this?

Post by **chiefrcd** » Sat May 31, 2008 5:46 pm

Yes, on the top side....but there is no bottom plate. The 4 screws that bolt to that plate on the stuffing box/rudder assembly are carrage bolts through the bottom of the boat. I'm not sure there isn't something up inside the outside hull...but we couldn't find it...the marina ground all the foam from around the hole and you could curl your finger up inside the outer hull and feel nothing but fiberglass.

Post by **chiefrcd** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:45 pm

New Revelation:

I went to take some pictures of the fiberglass job and lo and behold sitting next to me on the hard is a 2004 Albin 28 and there upon it's hull is a backing plate....a backing plate that is not on my boat. So I went to the local ex-Albin dealers boat yard and there sits a 2001 Albin with a backing plate around it's rudder....so I'm now looking for a backing plate and am in hopes of finding something or having something made so I'm not relying on carriage bolts embedded in fiber glass. I have no idea if there was a design change that included the backing plate on newer models than mine or if mine was omitted by accident at the factory. I would highly suggest that you inspect your Albins to see if you have a rudder plate on the exterior of your boat. If you do not...it might be wise to do a really good inspection of the rudder hole in your boat on your next haul. Here are a few pics of my hole...with the new tube in place.

and the plate on a 2004 Albin 28.

Post by **chiefrcd** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:54 am

No luck in finding the backing plate. Anyone ever had to replace this or have a idea where one could be found? Thought I'd check back here before I went to have one made.

Post by **RobS** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:24 am

I called Ken at Standish Boats. He said the 28TE rudder gear was out-sourced to a New Egland company that he believes may no longer be in business. His opinion is that it's a simple peice to have made up at a machine shop and out of aluminum it should easily take the shape of the hull when tightened down.

Post by **Denis** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:51 am

I am racking my brain trying to remember if I had such a plate on my boat or not. Luckly I am going SCUBA diving tomorrow night and I will have a good look to check for that. If I find that I do not have that plate my only question is do I pull the boat and have one installed or do I just try to wait for the fall. Thanks for all the info and pictures, they sure do help. Den

jcollins · Post by **jcollins** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:53 am

Denis,
Our boats are around the same year. I do not have the plate. I'm going to wait until the fall.

Post by **Pitou** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:46 am

Chief

Check out HamiltonMarine.com and plug rudder in the search function. You will find various sized bronze rudder bearing flanges and backing plates. I think this might be your ticket. You can always give them a call as well. Pretty knowledgeable group.

Merry Kate · Post by **Merry Kate** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:44 pm

Dang! Something else to worry about. I'm pretty sure my '97 does not have any backing plate, just like Chief's.

Albin Owners Group

Albin Owners Group

Haul, Clean, Paint, Launch - LEAK

Haul, Clean, Paint, Launch - LEAK

rudder beraring flanges and backing plates