A-25 Electrical System Puzzle?

[NickScheuer]

Electrics have never been my strong suit. The sailboat we had for 18 years was extremely simple; it had a "house" battery and a "starting" battery, both hooked up to a fairly simple bus bar through a 2-position=off switch. I put in the second battery, upgraded the switch, and installed a radio, not without a glitch or two. The boat I had for 12 years before that had no central electrical system. Except for trailer lights, I let mechanics work on my vehicles.

Well, the electric system in our 1976 Albin-25 is a mess. I think she has WAY too many wires hooked up to her two batteries instead of to the bus bar. Half of the stuff on the boat doesn't work, including the bilge pump. The ignition does work, and we got through last season by not running at night.

If I fix it, it will have to be by rewiring everything, one wire at a time, using the Albin schematic as a guide. If I have Larson's in Waukegan do it, I have no idea what that might cost.

Any ideas? I figure ANY of you reading this are more advanced in this field than I am. Fiberglass repair is so easy compared to electrics.

Nick

[don123]

You are correct that wiring to the battery posts should be kept to a minimum - The environment there is not good for electrical connections

One large positive wire to the engine starter (or the battery switch) and one large negative to the engine block. Sometimes bilge pump wires are run directly to the battery posts as well, especially for larger pumps. You can get a pair of felt anti-corrosion washers to put around the posts at an auto parts store - They really help to keep the terminals clean

You should have one large wire from battery negative to a centralized buss bar, where all other negative leads would be terminated. On a simple electrical system, sometimes this negative buss bar is a part of the electrical panel, other times it is just mounted to a bulkhead. The wire from the buss bar to the battery should be large enough to handle all loads at once - Maybe an 8 gauge or so. Try to keep all the negative wires you install black in color as it makes keeping things separate easier

Even if you're no expert, I would recommend you get a good book and do this project yourself, for the simple reason that when something goes wrong at sea, you'll have a much better chance of finding and fixing it if you installed it yourself. Check out the "12 Volt Bible for Boats" at Amazon for about $15 and use it as your guide as you go along

Don

[RobS]

.......Even if you're no expert, I would recommend you get a good book and do this project yourself, for the simple reason that when something goes wrong at sea, you'll have a much better chance of finding and fixing it if you installed it yourself. ...Don

I couldn't agree more. You will learn ALOT and then another plus is that in the future when there are things you need to add, change, etc. (in addition to repair) you will be confident and self sufficient. It's great when you can make repairs and improvements to the boat for only the cost of the parts. Also consider the fact that this does not have to be done all at once, it can be a work in progress and the boat is yours to use all along.

[Desertboater]

Nick,

I am in the midst of removing all the "non-tinned" wiring from our A-25 that we are repowering. I did not plan this but came to the conclusion to do it after 3 wires pulled right out of their crimp connectors with essentially no force and I saw they were Home Depot non-tinned copper. From other forums the following may be of use in your effort.

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On the Blue Seas site, they have the folowing list of recommended books for boaters Recommended Books on Marine Electrical Systems - Resources - Blue Sea Systems

#1 Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual, third edition
Nigel Calder
Maintain, repair, and improve a boats essential systems. A comprehensive guide to electrical, mechanical, and propulsion systems.

#2 Sailboat Electrical Systems: Improvement, Wiring and Repair
Don Casey
A basic treatment for recreational sailboats and powerboats. A good book for maintenance and repair.

#3 Sailboat Electrics Simplified
Don Casey
How to install wiring, make good, safe connections, match your battery bank and alternator to your needs, troubleshoot problems quickly, and avoid shore power problems.

#4 The Fisherman's Electrical Manual
John C. Payne
A complete guide to electrical systems for bass boats and other trailerable sport fishing boats.

#5 Understanding Boat Batteries and Battery Charging
John. C. Payne
Provides information about batteries, battery types, battery ratings, installation, charging devices and systems.

#6 Understanding Boat Wiring
John C. Payne
Compact explanation of basic boat wiring functions and practices.

#7The Marine Electrical and Electronics Bible, third edition
John C. Payne
A practical handbook for cruising sailors.

#8 The Motorboat Electrical and Electronics Manual
John C. Payne
A guide for power boaters to both electrical and electronics systems.

#9 Powerboater's Guide to Electrical Systems: Maintenance, Troubleshooting and Improvements, second edition
Ed Sherman
Focused on power cruisers‚ the author is a recognized authority on electrical practice and is well respected by boat builders and marine electricians.

#10 Advanced Marine Electrics and Electronics Troubleshooting
Ed Sherman
Targeted at trade professionals. Boat builders, installers, electricians and boatyard owners will want this book for its insight into new tools and techniques for tracking down problems. The advanced boat owner will benefit as well.

#11Boatowner's Illustrated—Electrical Handbook, second edition
Charlie Wing
Great for learning about a boat's electrical system.

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Marine Wiring Tips


1. First off you absolutly must plan what it is you will end up with. Have a picture, and not one in your mind, of what you intend to wind up with before you begin.

2. Force yourself to do it all and do it right. This may sound harsh, but go into the boat and cut out all the old stuff at the beginning, so you have to replace it. The doing it right part is just self inflicted.

3. Even before you begin your planning get yourself a copy of the wire size chart for a 3% loss and do not run any wire smaller than it recommends no matter what.

4. In conjunction with 3, sit down and make a list of every single electrical device on your boat, do not miss so much as a single bulb, then write down what its electrical requirement is, in amps. When figuring your wire size increase each requirement by about a third.

5. Once you get started label every single wire, label it at each end and in the middle. Lable them whereever there is any chance you might be dealing with them in the future.

6. Figure out for yourself what sort of foolproof method you will be using for attaching things to wires or wires to wires. Make sure that which ever method you choose to use that the wire is sealed completely. Liquids work ....

7. Minimize, minimize, and minimize some more. This should be part of your planning process and it should be carried out in execution as well.

8. No wire ever existed that had too much support.

9. Color code everything and then make sure you make up an "as wired" wireing diagram, complete with notes, a you actually complete the work. When done laminate a copy of this diagram and keep it on the boat. Once again, color code it, and follow convention to the extent possible here.

10. Never subsitute and inferior wire (to small or the wrong color, or the wrong type) for that which is required just because you're in a hurry or broke that day. Wait whatever amount of time it takes to do it right. A day's delay for a trip to the store or a couple of days waiting for UPS is better than being stranded off shore.

11. Ask all the questions you can of all the people you can possible attract to answer them. Learn to cut and paste questions posted on the Internet so you can publish your questions in at least a half a dozen places (there are many message boards with boating as their theme). There is no such thing as to much advice, you can pitch the clearly absurd, and it amuses me to see how many time I can run across what is exactly the same post.

[N4QC]

Desertboater:

Great information!!!

Have fun,

[NickScheuer]

Thanks Desertboater and ron123, I believe I'll just do it myself. after I get some "tinned" wire. I already have The 12-Volt Doctor's Practical Handbook, and will get one or two more books from the Bibliography you provided. The wiring schematic in the Albin Manual doesn't seem difficult to follow, and they have already established a wide range of color coding. A friend has given me a bus bar longer than the original one in my boat, on which all of the terminals are being used, with none left for new equipment.

Thanks again, Guys,

Nick

[DougSea]

Any of the wire you buy at West Marine, Jamestown Distributors, etc. should be tinned, marine wire. It really does make a difference!

Good luck with your project!

[NickScheuer]

No more wire from Radio Shack, eh? Actually, I have a good Elec Wholesale Distributor nearby who will have it all in a wide range of color.

Nick

[don123]

While it would be nice to have a boat with nothing but tinned wire, it's not essential - There are few such boats out there . . . . even many 'high dollar' yachts use ordinary wire for most circuits. You'll notice that the pigtails on most 'marine' electrics you buy are not tinned wire

Most important is to make good mechanical and electrical connections and make every effort to keep them dry. I prefer soldering to crimping, but crimping can make good connections *if* you have a good crimper - Not a $10 tool you buy at Home Depot or Radio Shack

For important items (like running lights and the bilge pump) I would probably start from scratch and use tinned wire, as keeping those connections dry is nearly impossible, but for the other circuits I would probably re-use the wiring that's already there and just cut off the existing ends and make new connections. If you cut the end off any wire and strip it to make a new connection and you get good clean copper, you're OK - If the newly stripped wire is brownish/black though, it's corroded and should be replaced. It's nearly impossible to make a good electrical connection to wire which is already corroded. If it won't solder easily, get rid of it. Crimping corroded wire because it won't solder isn't an acceptable solution

You don't need all new wire - Use common sense, make good solid connections, keep them dry and you'll do fine

Don

[Desertboater]

If you are going to be modifying your battery banks, here is a link to one of Maine Sail's discussions about battery switches and ASR's. I will probably be wiring the start & house banks with the alternate switch arrangement at the end of his long but informative post since a dedicated start battery is what I'm used to.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.c ... p?t=137615

I've found postings by both Maine Sail & Compass Marine very informative as I continue the process of repowering, rewiring, installing new thru-hulls and repairing fiberglass. Scope creep is getting to be a real problem on this project.

[amber jj]

The 1/2/or both information is very good.It is written so that even I could understand it.It takes a lot of the mystery out of how the battery switches should work.Thanks for the info.Bob