albin 27 ballast

[kmx1968]

Has anyone ever tried adding ballast to the hollow keel in a 27? Would water ballast make much difference running in a beam sea?

[Veebyes2]

When we owned our 27 I can't say that I'd never considered ballasting the boat. Ours had a 6 cylinder Westerbeke W100 which made it heavier down low than those with the lighter 4 cylinder motors. We also used the holding tank for fresh water (holding tank use not required in Bermuda) addiing more weight low. The boat was always loaded for cruising. We had to raise the waterline at the bow to the top of the bootstripe with all the additional weight.

Still, she was a roley boat uncomfortable in a beam sea.

Any weight in the keel would have to help. The question is how much, where & what will be the extra fuel burn to move it?

[tranmkp]

I had discussed this with a NA arch who was familiar with the Albin - It would not be a good idea for 2 main reasons.

1. The hull on the A27 does not have the structural integrity.
2 Adding ballast down low would create a "snap roll" situation that could damage the boat.

It could be conceivable that one could put an external full length bronze shoe on the boat - not so much for stability but more for strength. Thinking of it - It probably would be a sound idea to reglass with some Kevlar for puncture resistance - it is really thin down there -

[Veebyes2]

What??? On the hard the full weight of the boat is supported by the keel at 3, possibly 4 points. I did the hauling & blocking of my 27 for 13 years. No damage. If one was to add weight in the keel under the engine I cannot see how this would affect the structural integrity of the boat. The area is the strongest section, having to support the engine & the stresses it puts on the hull because that is where the driving force of the prop is applied to the hull.

Also, how could being quicker to recover to level possibly harm the boat. I'd love to hear the explanation on that one. The lower center of gravity would make the boat less tender.

[kmx1968]

Thank you all for the replies.I can understand the idea of the boat snap rolling with extra ballast because of the hull shape.Even if it didn't damage the hull,would probably damage me.
I am setting the boat up for sinknetting and oyster dredging.It is an early-mid 80's hull that sank in a storm and sat up for about 10 years,so you can imagine the shape it is in.
The guy I got it from was using it for commercial sea bass fishing,said he worked it 30 miles offshore in all kinds of weather,so they must be pretty good sea boats.
Got the deck cut out last year,and a 4045 tfm John Deere installed,hoping to finish it this winter,if funds and ambition hold out.
I have read and have been told that these hulls were heavy built,but i agree about the glass being kind of thin in the keel area for this size boat.Also didn't realize the hull was partially cored with balsa until I got the deck out.

[poillon1]

It is my opinion that Veebee2'a respone is abrupt and not in the spirt of this site where all of us, on evey knowledge level. are encouraged to ask questions and share information.

[jleonard]

It is my opinion that Veebee2'a respone is abrupt and not in the spirt of this site where all of us, on evey knowledge level. are encouraged to ask questions and share information.

I do not agree with your assessment. I think it was a very passionate response adding a little color to a black and white thread.

That said and related to this....I knew a person who lined the keel of his old Mainship trawler with home made lead bricks in an attempt to add stability (the Mainship keel is also hollow). He said the added weight did not slow him down any, but he seemed to be the only one who perceived any additional stability. I did NOT ride on his boat, but 2 others who did said they did not notice any real difference.

[Dave]

I think for a boat of that size it is pretty stable, the keel keeps it pretty straight except for a following sea when I can't get enough speed to out run the waves and I get pushed. In a beam sea I find it no worse than any other boat of that size. If you want more stability I am thinking bigger boat. The only time I would consider a ballast was if I was using it as a work boat and I was loading it up top heavy with lobster traps or something similar.

[kmx1968]

I am inclined to agree with you,Dave.
the hp I have should be sufficient for dealing with following seas,just have to deal with the beam sea issue.The gillnet reel and 1,000 lb fishbox above deck is bound to make a difference,if I am lucky enough to have the weight onboard.A friend made a good suggestion,a square framed rigging set up at about the back of the cabin,with 8' aluminum outriggers and stabilizers,same as a shrimp trawler but on a smaller scale.I am now debating whether to move the fuel tanks all the way to the stern to offset the weight of the net reel/nets,or to put the tank in the belly of the boat,either option will involve building new tanks.I fabricated a shaft log out of fiberglass tube so the stuffing box will be forward,just aft of the transmission,for easy,quick access,as the old stuffing box location will be under the fishbox.
I don't know why I get myself into such projects,think I will name the boat "Lack of Cents"

[tranmkp]

Did not mean to stir things up - I was just reporting some data - I had a nice conversation a while back about the 27 with its designer Joe Puccia. He told me it was designed as a picnic boat and he never could have imagined the kind of capers some of the owners have done. Before Albin took over the building he managed to build some at his own shop -- I am not sure of the numbers but, all of his or most of his had spade rudders. When I was running flat out with mine in choppy seas I could literally feel the sides of the hull flex. The hull is a bit too concave as (according to Joe) the mold was "off"



Laying too in a beam sea the boat (most hard aft bilges) will roll hard and slam back hard if the wave frequencies are right - I have hit HARD several times - which leads me to wonder if the slamming could lead to some structural issues. When I did my bottom for the first time I found cracks just at the turn of both bilges.


I had to grind them out - laid some glass and kevlar on them and all is well now - you should check yours out next time you do the bottom.

Here is my slip mate after IKE

With the high water, he slammed in the rafters during the storm - what gave was - and you can see the plastic and blue tape - is the hull to deck joint - it just cracked open like a egg crate - Impossible to really repair - shame as the guy real had it set up real nice.

[tranmkp]

Also, how could being quicker to recover to level possibly harm the boat. I'd love to hear the explanation on that one. The lower center of gravity would make the boat less tender.[/quote]

The idea it that will the boat has good initial stability because of the firm aft bilges, it reaches a point of diminishing returns the further the boat heels. If there is more weight low in the bilge, it is like the fat boy on the end of a seesaw - A quartering sea will pick up the stern heal the boat over and the fat boy on the seesaw will slam that aft quarter hard on the next coming swell. Remember that the 27 is not a ful displacement hull. Still the principals apply.

Here is some power boat goodness

http://setsail.com/category/sailing-vid ... se-videos/

[Veebyes2]

Had mine for 13 years from new 1986. I noticed that slight concave in the bottom. Thought it was by design because it made the boat plane with the 100hp Westerbeke in its own way & at a very slow speed.




One lesson learned at the first haulout was that the boat does indeed have a thin bottom. It does not skip across the ocean at 20kts plus so it does not have to take the slams of a planing hull. The trick was to lift & block the boat at its internal strong points. The bulk of the weight was placed at the fwd bulkhead, under the engine mounts & under the shoe. Jack stands went as near to the bottom, transom, side corner as possible & fwd engine bulkhead as possible. Never had any twisting issues after long storage periods.



In water I'm thinking that 27s with the larger heavier motors like the 6 cyl Westerbeke 100 are more stable than the 4 cyl 70hp motors. Had to raise my waterline to bootstripe to compensate for added weight.