Calling all A34 Owners, I need your personal experiences and thoughts about the A34 hull design. Having cruised the waters of New England for two summers aboard Paumanok I feel convinced the boat's semi-displacement hull design is great for getting the boat up to 15 - 16 kts but compromises stability as a result. I spoke to Beckson Marine (ports, etc) in CT and the mechanic that works on the company A34 corroborated my suspicions. He and I agreed that the boat handles very poorly in a following sea and constant "white knuckle" steering is needed when times get rough. The "tracking" of the boat and routine correcting in relative calm seas suggests the keel is not deep enough or the rudder is too small. On our way home from Block Island last Saturday seas were perfect but the "wandering" was still readily apparent. One interesting point is that as the boat went faster it seemed to track a little bit better. This however is no solution as seas build. Beckson added 1,400 pounds of lead in the hull to make the boat sit deeper in the water to correct the problem but this was only marginally helpful. I added several hundred pounds in the stern to even out the boat which had no effect on stability. We are now wondering if putting an extension on the rudder (making it longer) using a naval architect's design might have a positive effect on maintaining a good straight line while underway at any speed. Don't get me wrong Marcy and I love our boat but it is more of a fair weather boat than I would have expected in a 34ft design. I know all boats (esp trawlers) have problems in following seas but if there is a fix to make it safer I am all for giving it a try. What are your A34 experiences staying on course?
Ron
A34 Paumanok
Westbrook, CT
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Naval Architect Needed
-
Ron222
- First Mate
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:02 pm
- Home Port: Kingman Yacht Center, Pocasset, MA
- Location: East Falmouth, Cape Cod, MA
-
Clfield
- Swabby
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:11 am
- Home Port: West Palm Beach
Re: Naval Architect Needed
I just joined this forum. I found a Albin 34 in Miami that requires rebuilding, so I thought I would check out this forum. That is how I cam across your post.
I see that the post is a year old or so. Do you still have the boat and are you still looking to solve the problem?
If so I may be able to help you. Although I am not a practicing Naval Architect, I did recieve a Bach degree for Naval Arch./ Mech. Engineering from UC Berkeley.
I couple of questions to help define the problem:
1 What is the wave length , measured in boat lengths, of the following sea when you experience this problem?
2. Do you have any pictures of the boat out of the water, showing the under water stern area?
3. I have to assume that you were running a speeds well below planing.
4. When you are docking or motoring at slow speeds, does the stern tend to "slide" out from behind the bow. This is more noticeable and useful when docking. I delivered a river "barge" in Europe on time and she really slid sideways.
Some thoughts on you ideas:
1. Adding weight to the stern might help to raise the bow slightly. I believe your problem stems from the "forefoot" being too deep, a symptom exaggerated by a following sea with a wave length about equal to one boat length. So the boat "steers" by the head. I think you would experience marginal results from this method and at a great cost when you try to get the boat on a plane.
It would be far more effective to deepen the Keel aft. The down side to this "fix" is added draft.
2. Adding rudder surface will have a slightly positive effect on the problem( by increasing the lateral resistance aft) and make your corrections more effective. The downside is that it will make the helm "heavier" requiring more strength steer as the ratio of rudder area to leverage of the wheel is increased.
3. The length of the keel could be a factor in this as well. The longer the keel the better the boat will track. Of course it would mean that docking might be harder as well as the boat will have a much longer turning radius.
I look forward to hearing from you.
I see that the post is a year old or so. Do you still have the boat and are you still looking to solve the problem?
If so I may be able to help you. Although I am not a practicing Naval Architect, I did recieve a Bach degree for Naval Arch./ Mech. Engineering from UC Berkeley.
I couple of questions to help define the problem:
1 What is the wave length , measured in boat lengths, of the following sea when you experience this problem?
2. Do you have any pictures of the boat out of the water, showing the under water stern area?
3. I have to assume that you were running a speeds well below planing.
4. When you are docking or motoring at slow speeds, does the stern tend to "slide" out from behind the bow. This is more noticeable and useful when docking. I delivered a river "barge" in Europe on time and she really slid sideways.
Some thoughts on you ideas:
1. Adding weight to the stern might help to raise the bow slightly. I believe your problem stems from the "forefoot" being too deep, a symptom exaggerated by a following sea with a wave length about equal to one boat length. So the boat "steers" by the head. I think you would experience marginal results from this method and at a great cost when you try to get the boat on a plane.
It would be far more effective to deepen the Keel aft. The down side to this "fix" is added draft.
2. Adding rudder surface will have a slightly positive effect on the problem( by increasing the lateral resistance aft) and make your corrections more effective. The downside is that it will make the helm "heavier" requiring more strength steer as the ratio of rudder area to leverage of the wheel is increased.
3. The length of the keel could be a factor in this as well. The longer the keel the better the boat will track. Of course it would mean that docking might be harder as well as the boat will have a much longer turning radius.
I look forward to hearing from you.
-
Ron222
- First Mate
- Posts: 59
- Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:02 pm
- Home Port: Kingman Yacht Center, Pocasset, MA
- Location: East Falmouth, Cape Cod, MA
Re: Naval Architect Needed
Well, it has been a long time since I posted and asked the questions about the A34 rudder and asked for help. Thanks very much for the reply. Yes, I still have Paumanok (native american name for Long Island and former oceanographic research vessel) and, yes, the boat is still marginally safe in a following sea as I fight to stay in control. I have a picture of the rudder in my files and will try to locate it and post it this weekend. As for your thoughts:
1. The boatyard helped to install over 300 pounds of lead in the most aft area of the boat behind the rudder shaft. This is not really the bilge because the aft portion of the boat is flat for the modified semi-displacement hull. Adding weight was helpful and did lower the center of gravity a little. Also, the weight raised the bow to give a more even profile and planing surface.
2. I don't think the boat actually comes to a plane. It rises up in the water. The boat was made to be a fast trawler" by reducing hull resistance and using balsa core throughout, even below the waterline!! It wouldn't be a problem if they had installed the thru hulls properly and fiberglassed each hole which they did not. Before you consider an A34 make sure the hull is sound.
3. The boat does slide when turning into the dockslip but this isn't a good measure because I have a large bow thruster. Without the bow thruster, I feel the boat travels in a straight line at low speed with minor lateral sliding.
4. Your thought about lowering the keel vs. increasing the surface area of the rudder is interesting. As suggested, I will have think about the pro's and con's of each.
5. My big concern is how the boat tracks while running at moderate cruising speed (say 2100 rpm, 10-11 kts). At this speed, I have to continuously correct the boat heading. Basically, it drifts off course several degrees port and starboard while holding the wheel in one position. Why does this happen ?? It must be the rudder. A mechanic at the boat yard thinks there may be air in the hydraulic lines causing loose steering. It's worth a shot. They will "blow-out" the hydaulic lines with pressure next week.
We still love the boat and she has been in some very nasty sea conditions. Every boat has pluses and minuses and the A34 is no exception. She runs smoothly, handles 2-3ft seas easily, and has fantastic living space. Around 4 ft seas the stern starts pounding because of the flat aft surface area and thus steering is no fun because of the rudder (or depth of the keel).
Thanks again. I will send the pics a few days. Look forward to exchanging information. Let me know more about the A34 handyman special. I can tell you about many projects rebuilding Paumanok.
Ron
1. The boatyard helped to install over 300 pounds of lead in the most aft area of the boat behind the rudder shaft. This is not really the bilge because the aft portion of the boat is flat for the modified semi-displacement hull. Adding weight was helpful and did lower the center of gravity a little. Also, the weight raised the bow to give a more even profile and planing surface.
2. I don't think the boat actually comes to a plane. It rises up in the water. The boat was made to be a fast trawler" by reducing hull resistance and using balsa core throughout, even below the waterline!! It wouldn't be a problem if they had installed the thru hulls properly and fiberglassed each hole which they did not. Before you consider an A34 make sure the hull is sound.
3. The boat does slide when turning into the dockslip but this isn't a good measure because I have a large bow thruster. Without the bow thruster, I feel the boat travels in a straight line at low speed with minor lateral sliding.
4. Your thought about lowering the keel vs. increasing the surface area of the rudder is interesting. As suggested, I will have think about the pro's and con's of each.
5. My big concern is how the boat tracks while running at moderate cruising speed (say 2100 rpm, 10-11 kts). At this speed, I have to continuously correct the boat heading. Basically, it drifts off course several degrees port and starboard while holding the wheel in one position. Why does this happen ?? It must be the rudder. A mechanic at the boat yard thinks there may be air in the hydraulic lines causing loose steering. It's worth a shot. They will "blow-out" the hydaulic lines with pressure next week.
We still love the boat and she has been in some very nasty sea conditions. Every boat has pluses and minuses and the A34 is no exception. She runs smoothly, handles 2-3ft seas easily, and has fantastic living space. Around 4 ft seas the stern starts pounding because of the flat aft surface area and thus steering is no fun because of the rudder (or depth of the keel).
Thanks again. I will send the pics a few days. Look forward to exchanging information. Let me know more about the A34 handyman special. I can tell you about many projects rebuilding Paumanok.
Ron