Albin Owners Group

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to post a problem that happened to me this weekend to see how others would have delt with this. The reason I am doing this is to learn from my experiences and see how more experienced boaters would have delt with this. I wish this forum had a link called What if this happend to you, what would you do. I think it would be a great learning tool for everyone.

Anyway, I was out fishing this weekend on my 97 28 TE. We ended up about 50 miles out in the Gulf of Mexico. We started heading East and ended up South of the jetty opening leading to Port Aransas Texas. We fished all day Saturday and did not have any problems at all. We decided to stay overnight since the forcast called for winds of only 5 to 10 knots. On Sunday morning, we headed out in search of Tuna. As we started out on Sunday, I checked all styems and everything was in good order. My fuel gauge read just shy of 3/4. On our way to the Tuna bank, I noticed that my gps started to flicker. Not long after that, it completely went out. We were out 50 miles with no navigation. I also happen to glace at my gas gauge and it was now reading less than a quarter tank of fuel. I also noticed that my bow thruster was out. I checked my windshield wipers and noticed that they were moving very slow. We took our meter out and read only 8 volts going to our gps. We soon realized that the systems were shutting down because they needed more volts.

Prior to my trip, my mechanic checked my alternator and told me that it was putting out plenty of volts. I had him do that because my gauge was only reading 12 volts. He told me that the gauage was the problem and not the alternator. He checked all systems in the boat and concluded that the boat was in top conditon. As a matter of fact, the boat handled extremely well. Well to make a long story short, I always carry an extra hand-held gps in my boat. However, when we turned it on, all the information came up in German. It finally took a while to figure out how to set the settings to English. I had just tested the unit the week before and it was working fine. It kind of felt like we were in the Bermuda Triange for a second. LOL We finally made it back to port with the fuel gauge reading almost empty. When I filled the tank, it took 98 gallons of fuel. In understand that our 28's have a 132 gallon tank.

So my questions to those who would like to help me out are:

1. What would you have done had this been you?
2. How do you use your compass to get back to port if you ended up in a different postion than you first started.
3. How or could you hotwire your gps to a battery to get power in an emergency?
4. Our two radios were not getting any reception 50 miles out. One is a dash-mount the other is a hand-held VHF radio with GPS location. What radio would you recommend to have that has better reception?
5. Does the 28 TE have 132 gallon tank and is that all usable fuel?
6. Do you carry a satelite phone and if so, which system, company would you recommend?

I don't know what caused the problems yet but should know soon. I have two theorys in mind but would like to know if any of you have your opinions. Thanks again for your help, your information could help others in a similar situation.

Thanks,
Roland

rcornejo wrote:So my questions to those who would like to help me out are:

1. What would you have done had this been you?
2. How do you use your compass to get back to port if you ended up in a different postion than you first started.
3. How or could you hotwire your gps to a battery to get power in an emergency?
4. Our two radios were not getting any reception 50 miles out. One is a dash-mount the other is a hand-held VHF radio with GPS location. What radio would you recommend to have that has better reception?
5. Does the 28 TE have 132 gallon tank and is that all usable fuel?
6. Do you carry a satelite phone and if so, which system, company would you recommend?

I don't know what caused the problems yet but should know soon. I have two theorys in mind but would like to know if any of you have your opinions. Thanks again for your help, your information could help others in a similar situation.

Thanks,
Roland

Hey Roland! Glad you got back safe and sound! And thanks for sharing the story, it certainly gave me some things to think about.

In my humble opinion you really made just one big mistake, and that was trusting your fuel gauge. When my gauge says I have 3/4 of a tank I'm at or below a half. It is inaccurate - but consistent!

I've put my answers to your questions below. Just my thoughts/opinions based in my years on the water. Like a friend of mine often says about himself "See these grey hairs? I earned them!"

1. I'd have fired up the handheld GPS as soon as I saw I had a problem with the main unit. And I like to think I'd have made note of my position before it died.
2. Using the position I obtained in step 1 - I'd pull out my paper charts (you have those, right?) and plot the course home. And if you're like me and have an electronic compass - I'd pull out the hand-held compass I keep for just such an occasion!
3. Hotwiring your GPS to a battery is a great idea - if you have a 12v battery to hotwire it to. Which in this case you didn't since it sounds like they were all dead or dying. Having a good handheld with spare batteries on board is probably the better way to go than ripping in to your wiring. I actually carry 2 handhelds on most longer trips. And if you haven't already - pre-program some of your more important waypoints into the handheld. I navigated all the way from Kent Island MD to my home port in Norwalk CT on a Garmin 12XL when the big GPS in my brand new (to me) boat failed. I have one of those "go anywhere" mounts so I can clip it in place and see it to navigate from.
4. VHF radios are considered "Line of sight" and their range is primarily limited by the height of the antennas, as well as their power. The bigger boats often have SSB (Single Sideband) radios which can reach stations hundreds of miles away but the installation is much more complicated and they need a lot of power, probably not a good option on a 28 - especially one with dead main batteries! You can get an adapter for many handhelds which will let you connect them to your bigger (and higher) mounted VHF antenna which will give you more range.
5. I believe my 1997 28T has a 125 gallon tank. It is not all usable, especially in rough seas. And there's nothing quite like the feeling when you think you may run out of fuel! Slow down and you'll go farther - even though it extends the time that your nerves are shot!
6. I don't have a sat phone but if I was running offshore like you are I'd think about getting one!

A few other thoughts:

Get more familiar with your boat's fuel burn and fuel gauge readings. Part of the attraction of the 28 for me was that big diesel engine. Just needs two things to keep going - air and fuel...

When I'm underway I normally have my starting battery switched off. I do it so I don't accidently leave it on when I'm at anchor and kill it with the fridge, stereo, lights, etc. if I stop and drift/anchor for a while. It's a big 8D and my boat is wired such that I CAN provide power to my electronics from any battery. This wouldn't have solved your problem but it would have let you get further towards home with your GPS and radio functioning.

If you have a battery problem - start shutting things down! Lights, radios, refrigerator, fans. Batteries often will "bounce back" if you take the load off of them (has to do with how the plates/acid work together) and you might have been able to use the dashmount VHS for a Mayday had it become necessary.

Speaking of Maydays - Get an EPRIB! No lights, no fuel, out of radio range - that would have qualified as a genuine emergency!

Hope all that helps. I know I'm going to be reviewing some of my systems/procedures as a result of your post!

Hi Doug,

Thanks so much for your feedback and suggestions. You have made some very important suggestions that I will begin working on this week. I am a firm believer that ," its better to have it and not need it then to need it and not have it." I especally like the suggestion regarding turning your main battery switch off. I never thought about that. You can at least have one battery ready to go at all times.

This was a very good learning experience for me. Luckly, we all got home safe and didn't have any injuries. We all kept our cool and remained calm and focused. It is interesting how things can happen so quick when everything is going smooth. I am on my way to look into a satelite phone. That could be the most important item that can save the day. I know one thing, I sure love my Albin!!

Thanks again for taking the time to help out.

Roland

Roland, if you are new to fishing I suggest you look for a local fishing club or website to get some off-shore fishing buddy boats. Here people log on the Virginia Beach Sport Fishing site and tell when they are going out. We also have a printed list of names, phone numbers, and boat names. Usually there are a number of boats out on a good day and you can always reach someone on the VHF even though it is 60 miles off-shore. Fishermen here monitor and talk on channel 68 so you can call someone for help or to send help when they get close enough to shore. For real emergencies the coast guard may be able to hear us with their tall antennas but I have never tried to reach them.
I carry a ditch bag with extra GPS, VHF, AM/FM radio, extra batteries and a 6 man life raft. You can get a cigarette lighter adapter for the GPS but if the boat's batteries are 8 volts that may not be any help. I changed the fuel gauge and fuel sender unit so it is reliable even if not exactly linear. I always worry about a failure such as yours and would like to know what happened. Was the alternator bad, the voltage regulator or one of the batteries dead?

Hi Russell,

Great advice. I was thinking about joining a club but I don't think there are any in my area. There are some wade fishermen but that would not help me out. I will look into that. That would be great to have that kind of setup. I am a very experienced fisherman. I have also been boating for many years but as you know, you don't know what can happen out there. This is the first time this type of problem has ever happend to me. I too carry extra batteries, flashlights, gps, radios, etc.. I too may look into working on the fuel gauge and fuel sendor unit.

You mentioned you carry a ditch bag with a 6 foot life raft. Do you remember where you got that? Does that fit in your bag? We are still trying to figure out what happend but everything is pointing to the alternator. We should know by tomorrow. The batteries are new since July, everything was checked and double checked. I purchased the boat in July and went through everthing replacing anything I thought looked worn or did not have service records on. It is just one of those things that can go wrong of course went wrong.

Thanks again Russell for your advice. That means a lot to me and to others who are reading that can learn a from this.

Take care,

Roland

Brings up an interesting question, this being the season of giving and all. The first 2 things I bought after getting Bluey were safety items: a new set of PFDs (even tho she came with some) and a handheld VHF. Now you have me thinking I need a handheld GPS. If I've been a good boy, and Admiral Santa agrees to bring me a handheld GPS, which one should I request? I see WestMarine has a newly released and expensive Garmin 78s, and that Navionics has an app/maps for the droid and iphones.

Bluey wrote:Brings up an interesting question, this being the season of giving and all. The first 2 things I bought after getting Bluey were safety items: a new set of PFDs (even tho she came with some) and a handheld VHF. Now you have me thinking I need a handheld GPS. If I've been a good boy, and Admiral Santa agrees to bring me a handheld GPS, which one should I request? I see WestMarine has a newly released and expensive Garmin 78s, and that Navionics has an app/maps for the droid and iphones.

The phones/apps are great; I have GPS on my phone and on my iPad I have several really nice navigation apps installed. However - neither of them are water or shockproof. So given the emergency preparedness nature of your question I think you need to go with a marine handheld. I have two somewhat older Garmins, the 12XL and a GPSMAP 76, both are great if a bit light on fancy features...but I really have them to get me home, not plot out my next vacation! And for that they're great. Just make sure it stays on the boat! I consider the GPSMAP 76 part of my "ship's equipment", the 12XL occasionally travels with me.

Doug mentioned using paper charts and navigating the old fashioned way. I totally agree. You should always have up to date paper charts of the area you are naviigating. Another necessity is an accurate compass. Your compass should be compensated and for the best accuracy you should create a deviation table. That's basically a table showing the actual magnetic heading for each compass reading. A 1 degree error in your heading will result in being about a mile off for every 60 miles traveled. Many of the steering compasses I see on boats are, in my opinion, of such poor quality they should not be relied on for navigation. In general the larger compasses are better and get one that is designed for the high vibration environment found on many power boats. I highly recommend if you go offshore out of sight of land and navigation marks, periodically mark your position on a paper chart. That way, if our electronics fail, you will know at least approximately where you are. You can then plot a compass course back to a point on shore. To hit a particular place accurately you need to know your heading accurately and the effect of wind and current. You can estimate these if you know them, but another technique is to deliberately head several miles to one side of your destination. That way when you sight the shore and are not at your destination you will know which way to turn. Another useful item to carry is a good hand bearing compass. Once you sight land, you can take bearings to objects or features on shore and find your position on the chart. If you are not familiar with basic navigation, I highly recommend you take a course. Your local Power Squadron or Coast Guard Auxillary should have some inexpensive courses geared for the recreational boater. It's a good way to spend some of that free time over the winter while the boat is layed up. They also teach things like rules of the road and seamanship, education we should all have for the safety of ourselves and others. In summary:

1. Always have paper charts and know how to use them.
2. Have an accurate compass, preferably with a deviation table.
3. Periodically mark your position on the paper chart (especially if you are out of sight of land) to be prepared for the event of electronics failure.
4. Take a course if you fell you need to improve your skills at basic navigation.

Modern electronic navigation with GPS and chartplotters is wonderful. It makes life so easy, but it should never be a substitute for know how to navigate with a paper chart and compass.

Hi Loubennett,

Thanks for the great advice. Doug also mentioned the paper charts. I have since contacted the Coast Guard Auxillary and have joined their organization to get more training. I am a licensed captain but just do this on the weekends. The Auxillary has on-going traning and certifications that will keep my skills sharp. I don't have much experience with charting which is the first thing I will study. It is a great thing to know regardless of where you go.

I posted this experience so that others can take a closer look at what they have on board and to see what they would do. I felt I was prepared but things could have changed quickly. The one thing I see that I failed to do was to have a back up plan for my back up plan. What I mean is that I had a battery operated gps on board just in case I lost my power but what if that had not worked, it almost didn't if you remember? What then? I was 50 miles out with no sight of land or other boats. My radio was out, my hand-held radio was not getting a signal, my bilage pumps were out, my thruster was out, my gps was out, all gauges were reading incorrectly, etc.. Even the best thought out plans can go wrong. I have always believed on being prepared but when you are out in the water, you can never prepare enough. Even though you think you won't need it, bring it! You just never know.

Thanks again for the great advice. I will do everything you guys mentioned. Please see if you can convince our webmaster to post some kind of link that talks about saftey issues, perhaps an article with questions and answers or real-life experiences. Unfortunatly, It seems that we learn a lot when tragedy strikes others. I think having that exposure to what if's would be very helpful to others and could possibly save some lives. I have not been a member long and consequently don't know very many people to make this happen.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Roland Cornejo

Roland, one thing I forgot to mention. If you have paper charts and basic piloting skills, you only need position (latitude & longitude) from your back up GPS. Basic units are pretty cheap and lat & Lon readings are the same in any language. The most error prone part of old fashioned navigation is knowing your present position. I did a lot of boating before chart plotters and GPS and Loran was too expensive for most smaller boats. I remember my first voyage on a boat with Loran. It was very comforting to have latitude and longitude, find them on the chart, and say "we're right there". Especially at night.

I second your suggestion of a forum for navigation, seamanship, and safety. The exchange would benefit us all.

A few thoughts to add to the discussion.

First, I don't think it's wise to head offshore without a full tank of fuel. The old adage is 1/3 for the trip out, 1/3 for the trip home, and 1/3 in reserve. My 31 held 300 gallons, and I'd use about 120 per trip, but I always filled up before I left, because you never know what might happen.

I agree with everyone about the importance of having paper charts on board. Even if your GPS quit, and you didn't know your lat/long, you could plot your position knowing how long you ran, at what speed, and at what heading. Might not be spot on, but close enough. If you know the depth of the water, that can help too.

I also agree with Lou that when you plot your course home, plan to miss to one side. I'll add that, it your depth sounder works, and you know the sea buoy is in, say, 30' of water, once you get to 30', you can turn and find the sea buoy. No depth sounder? Navigators have used lead lines for 1,000's of years. The water color can also give you a clue.

I'm sure no one carries a portable AM radio anymore, but back in the day, but here in Charleston, an AM station lines up perfectly with the Jetties. If you turn the radio to 300 degrees and the signal disappears, you're lined up with the jetties. This was how guys got home after a day of fishing back in the 50's.

I guess the point is, there are a lot of ways to get home if the GPS fails, if you use your head.

Gee Tom, I forgot about the radio direction finder technique. Now I remember units that were designed to do just what you describe. They were really just AM radios with an antenna that was designed to be very directional and an easy means to rotate it. Airplanes used to use them too. Using that technique, however, does require a priori knowledge of the location of the stations antenna. There's another project for the winter. Find the location of the stations and plot them on your paper charts. Then all you need is the radio.

Hi Tom and Lou,

Great information. I did not know about the AM radio technique. I will have to study that to find out more about it. I do have an AM radio on the boat. I will study the chart plotting for sure. That is something that I am weak in and need some help in that area. If anyone knows of a place that offers on-line training, please let me know.

I agree 100% that you should have a full tank of gas when you head offshore. I did have a full tank but I was getting false readings on my gauge due to low volts. When I got back and filled it up, it only took 98 gallons of fuel. I don't think Albins have a 100 gallon tanks unless I am wrong. From the specs I have, my 97 TE has a 132 gallon tank. That means that I had enough fuel only reading like I did not.

At any rate, lots to take in and consider. I appreciate all your input and help.

Roland Cornejo

Your idea of a section for this topic is a great idea. It could help prepare us all for emergencies. I saw the replies about paper charts which I endorse 100%. Even on relatively short trips, I have my paper charts at hand. I chart out voyages in pencil in advance. My father was a harbor pilot and I still have some of his charts with shoals highlighted in blue pencil shading and courses and distances. Also, I use depth from the paper chart to compare to my GPS chartplotter to help verify my position. If I am in 25 feet of water and should be in 65 feet, something isn't right. If you have ever suddenly been enveloped in thick fog, you appreciate the value of dead reckoning.
One other point is that if you were closer to land but your radio wasn't functioning due to low batteries, you should have a handheld and might be able to connect it to your boat's antenna for a greater reach than the small handheld antenna has.
Thanks for introducing this topic.

Where do you people live that it is so hard to get home without a GPS? Even if I am 60 miles out I know to head West and as soon as I see land I know where I am. I find it more of a convenience than a necessity but it is great for marking where you catch a fish when trolling and finding wrecks.