Enlarging a rudder

[pred36]

We are thinking to enlarge our rudder on our Albin 36 as an alternative to a bow thruster. We have friends who can machine this for very little. Has anyone tried this to boost manuverability?

[Veebyes2]

Which 36? The fast rawler or the old tri cabin? Either one, if single, have you tried using a good short shot of power to get the boat aimed in the desired direction?

I've operated nothing but singles since 1986. Nothing like a blast of hp to get theboat to pay attention to what I want it to do. I could get my A27 to spin in under 2 boat lengths without touching the wheel.

Cheaper than a bow thruster or rudder mods too.

[lmustico]

Forward or reverse?

[JackK]

I would vote with Doug (Veebye's) ... power bursts are the key to getting the boat to respond.

Below is a link to a thread about vibrations and turning at speed. Albin actually changed the design of the rudder on the 28 to make it smaller to alleviate these problems. I had mine cut down and it made a huge difference in handling at cruising speeds. There are photos in the thread before and after the mods.

viewtopic.php?t=184&highlight=

I'd hate to make the rudder bigger and find you created more problems.

Jack

[Denis]

I want Veebye's to come up here to teach me. I have practiced dozens of times in and around the marina during the middle of the week, in a mooring and just out in the open water. If the wind is blowing anything above 10mph. I can not turn the nose into the wind so that I can back into my slip. I know it can be done with the right person behind the wheel but so far it's not me, and it puts a real damper on when or if I leave my slip. I to have looked into a larger rudder and I have priced out a larger bow thruster and with the price of either of those two options I may just sell the boat and buy something that turns a little easier for me. Never had this problem before I got this boat, again I know it's me. I have asked a marine engineer to give me some suggestions about changing my rudder and there is more to it than just making it larger or changing it's shape. If there is no test data out there to use, it would require a lot of trial and error, not to mention possible changes to the steering linkage, rudder post, and power steering unit. It's not an easy fix. It would be a lot cheaper to fly Veebyes up here to teach me, what to you think? Denis

[jcollins]

Uh oh...sounds like a challange.
VeeByes will be here sometime this summer traveling.
Looks like another Rendezvous.

The East Coast Doug-from-Bermuda Rendezvous.

[RicM]

Probably the best and cheapest solution would be to attend the next NE Rendezvous. There will be plenty of 28TE owners there to discuss and try some maneuvers with. I have said many times that docking a boat is the hardest mental exercise I have ever (partially) learned. It's like parallel parking a car with no brakes on LSD.

[Russell]

This may be obvious to everyone but it is important to select a slip on the correct side as you enter the dock area. On a 28TE that is on the starboard side as we have left hand props. If you have one on the port side it is nearly impossible to use the prop wash to get in or out unless you dock bow in.

[Cape Codder]

I know how difficult it can be to manuver in a crowded area, and with the wind pulling the bow in the wrong direction, especially backing into a slip.
The bow thruster can sometimes hold you steady, but can't compensate for the wind, and move in the right direction.
A friend has a 42 single diesel with a thruster in a very tight slip, and prevaling SW winds fighting his entry every time he backs in.

His success is based on leaving several spring lines permenently at the dock. The dock lines have spliced loops at the end, ready to quickly place over a cleat.
As long as you have someone aboard to assist, this can really work well.
Backing in, putting a spring line on the mid-cleat is best, and continue backing in (slowly) and snug the hull into the dock, and yes, you can then keep the engine in reverse idle while you ready the next line(s)

Even grabbing the stern cleat with a spring line and continue backing slowly can start this process. Once you're pulled toward the dock, you need to stop backing and release that line to move it to your mid-cleat. Then back in further, snugging the hull toward the dock.


Practice, practice, practice.

And as mentioned above, when backing, the stern is migrating toward starboard (forcing the bow toward port). That's inherent in our left handed prop boats. Because of this, I keep the wheel turned toward STARBOARD, so a quick forward thrust will kick the STERN back over toward port.
When backing in with the 28TE, I don't align the boat perfectly, but I have the stern a bit too far to port, and as I back in, it naturally drifts toward starboard to properly align.
Wind, current and speed make it challenging at times.
Practice, practice, practice!!

DON'T FORGET THOSE FENDERS!!!!!

[Veebyes2]

I can save somebody the airfare . I think BDA to PVD is about $600 these days. I could send my son. He is in Warwick RI right now at NET. Trouble is, he is not much use with an IB. Very good with an OB though .

If all goes to plan, I will be passing through the RI & CT area this year but it will not be till October. No boating for us this year. Gonna have to learn all over again next year IF I get the refurb on our 32 done by then .

Best advice already given is practice, practice, practice. Use that springline too. It is your best friend. Watch the fishermen, the commercial guys, not the weekend warriors. They are masters at boat handling in tight spots.

I really don't have much slip navigating experience. My boats have always been revolving mooring kept. Singlehanded getting onto a mooring in the wind in a tight area has it's own set of challenges. I have made it look easy on a windy day many times . I have had the boat make me look like a jacka$$ on a windless day more than a few times too, all under the eyes of guests sitting on their balconys of a hotel right above me .

[jcollins]

Just before I pulled my boat this year I was at the fuel pier watching a commercial crabber pull up and dock. Very impressive. I asked him the secret. He told me it's really no secret. He does it for a living every day and he doesn't have a overly pretty boat to worry about. Practice, practice. He also said "don't try to impress anyone". People that giggle or laugh just don't know what's involved.

Just think about all that fuel those twin screw guys are burning. I have said this before...when it get's snotty out there and the twin screw, bleach bottles are coming in, we are just getting ready to go out.

[Denis]

Maybe I should put an outboard kicker off the transom and use it like a twin for backing into my slip. That way I'll have the fuel efficancy of a single on the water and the manuverability of a twin at the dock.

[RicM]

Abin did up the hp of the thruster at some point around '99-'00, I believe. The problem is that no matter how powerful your thruster (!) there will always be conditions that will overwhelm it (!!). Lot's of practice and experience will help you adapt your docking technique to the conditions at hand. There are times when all elegance goes out the door and you just get close enough to throw a dock line to anyone there, have them tie it off, then work the motor & thruster to get as close as conditions permit. Like an airplane, any landing you walk away from is a good one.

[pred36]

We have a old Albin 36 (1980) tri cabin. We were thinking to englarge the rudder length wise (extending it around 2 feet and squaring it up). However; we are concerned about any "engineering" issues that might arise from doing that. And can the rudder post handle the extra torque. Sounds like we should just "practice, practice, practice" or get a bow thruster (when the budget allows).

[jcollins]

Before changing the rudder design take a look at a stern thruster.
I saw this on a Ranger Tug (not the fishing boat) at the boat show this past weekend.

Nice looking boat.

http://www.c-ranger.com/