Pilot House Rot

[Beta Don]

FRP (Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic) is great for new lay-ups with any sort of fiberglass cloth/roving/mat. Polyester resin sets up very quickly, but the glass strands are easily and quickly wetted out, so the two go well together . . . . and it's cheap. Polyester resins do not bond well to epoxy, set up FRP or wood, so if you're doing repairs to FRP or if you are dealing with wood (which does not wet out quickly) instead of glass and you want a good bond, epoxy is the way to go. Because epoxy bonds much better to old fiberglass than polyester resins, fiberglass damage to your boat is much better repaired with epoxy because it sets up slowly - Especially important is wood is involved because the slow hardener allows it to wick into the wood fibers which essentially turns your wood into fiberglass - The epoxy is strengthened by the wood fibers and the combination of wood/epoxy is stronger than either one alone

Try http://www.raka.com for your epoxy - Much cheaper than West System products and it works just as well. I've built dingys and done all sorts of repairs using the Raka resin over the past 20 years or so and never had an issue with it. I recommend using the slow, non-blushing hardener

Don

[rnummi]

I just ordered from Raka for the epoxy. Only thing left at this point is the forward pilot house. Since I've already been swimming with epoxy, I'll stay the course. I'm still scratching my head inre how to fill the void in the lower 6 inches below the front windows. The top 6 inches is fine, just delaminated from the front skin. Bottom 6 is just hollow from pulling all the rotted core out. I tried inserting a couple of mahogany trim pieces under the bottom to function as the base, but there is insufficient space to pull away the skin to do so. I'm going to go with waht I did along the port and starboard sides, wax paper it and blue tape to make cofferdam. Then I'll pour epoxy to make the base.

After epoxy base pour has cooked,

1. fill in the 6" void with expanding foam (only filling the 6" void) let dry. Then a top pour to reattach the front skin to the good core (this creating a sandwich Epoxy base, then foam, then 6" of epoxy on top of the foam up to edge of window gap. (This will dramatically save $).

2. fill in the 6" void with poly (again, only filling the 6" void) let dry. No worries about the poly not adhering to the top of the epoxy, I'm, just using it as a "space filler". Then pour epoxy on top of the poly to edge of windows gap. $

3. fill in the 6" void with epoxy (remember 6 inches of depth across entire front of pilot house). I think that's lots and lots of epoxy. Base on the usage so far, we're talking 2-3 gallons at minimum. $$$$$

What say the masses?

[rnummi]

Oops.... Bad tape job. This is why you shouldn't leave the boat for lunch when pouring epoxy. Good thing it was still gelled.

[rnummi]

For those that are following my pilothouse odyssey, note the drips coming out of the screw holes..... It also dropped inside of boat onto headliner.... In other words.... Another unsealed access point for moisture into main cabin...

[rnummi]

PS: the holes are where they screwed the PH to the liner... See what's lurking behind your trim strips.....no washers, no caulk, just screwed from outside in. My guess is it goes right into cabin... JT check for indicia of leaks por favor. Yikes good thing I didn't pull my liner. It probably looks like the inside of a shower head... Holes everywhere.

[JT48348]

I know whats behind my trim strips because I have no trim strips any more. My pilothouse is affixed to the deck and solid. You have a different situation. I'm not sure what else can be said, but I did find the following notes from my newly written "Guide to Albin 27 Spectrum Disorders."

Conceptualize it like this: there's a spectrum, a continuum if you will. On the one end is a pristine nearly original probably early 90s Albin that is in great shape. On the other, a barn find with many issues from years of neglect. Not all boats will exhibit the same issues. But the solutions are from a grab bag of basic Good Old Boat knowledge. Thus the Schermhauser Flueter Lever sometimes gets jammed.

For the density comparisons with 12 panels, in each case increasing the density reduced the ringing time and lowered each mode's Q more than the less dense versions. Likewise, in all tests of 12 panels the FRK facing improved absorption from the lowest 41 Hz mode to the 200 Hz upper limit displayed. The tests of six 6-inch thick panels show less of a trend, and in one case - 701 plain versus 701-FRK - the plain version appears a tiny bit better at the 42 Hz mode. The other modes hardly changed at all, but this might be due to covering less total room surface. This also shows that density appears to become less important when the panels are made thicker. However, even with only six 6-inch panels 705-FRK still emerges the clear winner, if only by a small amount at 42 Hz.

Note that what looks like a longer decay at 200 Hz in some of the FRK graphs is not really the case. The peak at 200 Hz is actually at a higher frequency, so its center is off the right edge of the graph. In the Room Empty graph the peak just above 200 Hz is very narrow (high Q). In the 6-inch thick 701-FRK graph the peak is made broader (lower Q) and is also at a slightly lower frequency due to the presence of the absorption. What had been a larger peak hidden past the right edge of the graph, is now more fully on the graph. So the peak is not really worse, it's better.

Definitely keep working on it

[rnummi]

Yeah, mines definitely in the extreme disorder zone....I'm sure glad I didn't get a Hinckley picnic boat...who wants a "It's perfect, you can now have all your free time back and/or die". I actually have a reason to pop up on Saturday mornings, wave goodbye to the wife, pat the dog and show up at the RV storage lot where I'm the only boat.... Kinda like being a crazy cat lady....

[rnummi]

On a lighter note: I just discovered that my pressure treated fence slats probably will kill me w Arsenic. The best test of West System will ultimately be, will it keep me alive by completely sealing in the deadly toxins that are itching to get out and get me. Bet that would add a whole new incentive to anulize all your drilled through screws/bolts etc.

Sheesh.

[JT48348]

You may want to research the use of pressure treated lumber as a coring material. My understanding is the chemicals involved and any moisture are not conducive to an epoxy bond. I would choose another coring material if it were me

[rnummi]

I belatedly concur. They're in however. The good news is they are just "fillers" for all intents and purposes they are suspended like a fly in amber.

As you might note, I'm posting for other morons who don't get a concensus from this board before "just do it". You will defity be seeing a lot more "I have a brilliant idea" before I pull the trigger. Slowly learning the hard way.

[tego]

Rick, One of the best "filler" woods is cyprus. It's pretty rot resistant, light,strong and flexible. You can get a couple of 2x4s pretty cheap and they'll go a long way. If you stain it and finish it, it even looks very good. It glues up a lot better with epoxy or just wood glue than the other "rot resistant" woods too. I've used it for years on some very nice boat restorations. Ben

[rnummi]

Thanks! How about mahogany? HD has a pretty good supply of various cuts. I didn't see any cypress.

[tego]

Mahogany is good! I just figured it was a lot more expensive and tougher to find. Actually, mahogany is right behind teak for rot resistance and actually better than teak for accepting epoxy and glue. Remember though, I'm talking about real mahogany and not the relative from the Phillipines. Any building supply can order the cyprus-it's used on a lot of decks on higher end houses. Ben

[rnummi]

I've got about 100 feet of milled 3" by 5/8" Rosewood trim strips from Don's Marine Salvage...I plan on replacing all the trim around pilot house. It's really gorgeous. Came as surplus from Island Packet factory...stuff weighs a ton and is rock solid. Was also thinking of using it to replace widows frames... What say you? Island packet used it for exterior trim on their sailboats until it became too hard to get continuing supply. I picked the whole lot up for $125.

[tego]

Rick, I'm envious! Rosewood is indeed beautiful and is used primarily now for musical instruments and high-end furniture. You only have about 100 lineal feet so you'll have a lot of waste unless every board is the exact size you'll need. Plan it out and draw the outline of each piece you'll need on the pieces of lumber that you have. If you redesign the windows a little, you can probably stretch it out, but I think you'll find that you're way short if you want to use it for frames and trim. If I had the rosewood, I think I'd use it for interior trim, a new table and possibly the window trim inside the wheelhouse. Whatever you do, plan it very carefully to minimize waste. That stuff is expensive, if you will need some more to complete a project. Good luck Ben