Starter issues revisited

[Paddy]

The new starter went in this week but I still have an intermittent no-start situation, exactly like I had with the old starter. It either starts 10 times in a row or just clicks. Tapping the black motor part (not solenoid side) seems to get both the old and new starter to kick over, but it may just be a coincidence.

Right in front of the starter is a relay, it must have something to do with the starter because it needs to be grounded for the starter to work. The part also appears to be new...replaced.

Starting battery is a new AGM and I have two 4D backups for emergency starts (replaced in 2011). Inverter is at 100%. All connections were cleaned

What should I be looking for at this point. Is it possible for two starters to exhibit the same no-start characteristics?

Could the starter gears be hanging up on the flywheel and if so, how do I know? Wouldn't that wipe the battery out?

Could it be a faulty relay? Can I jump it as a test the next time it does not start?

Really could use some help here, very frustrated.

Thanks

[Tree]

Silly question, but is it possible to have lost a tooth from the starter ring around the flywheel or even possibly the starter ring slipping?

[Paddy]

Not silly, but not probable. The starter teeth are there and if I landed on a spot of the flywheel where a tooth is missing, I would have to hand crank the engine to get it to a good tooth. This is a push button "click" sound and either start or no start. Tapping around aimlessly on the starter, press button and it starts right up.

Bad ground???

[jleonard]

I would first suspect a bad ground. Remove the starter and clean the entire contact surfaces and the bolts and washers and the cables and re-install. Then do the same for the solenoid. After that I would check the ignition switch (or start button if equipped) and all the connections.
I would not rule out a bad relay, they can arc inside and give problems like you are describing. I carry a spare relay, they are cheap.

[Paddy]

The no-start happened about two weeks after the purchase. At first, once in a while it did not start, but after a few minutes and button pushes, it started. It got worse last week, the anchor broke loose and I could not get it started, we drifted into the shallows and soft grounded. It fired up and we gently got into deeper water. The next time it happened, I assumed it was a bad start button, so while on the hook, I flipped the stop and start button, it fired right up. Last week, no start at all, so i started tapping the starter, sure enough, it fired right up..."bad solenoid, just replace." Well to my surprise this morning, with the new starter, I had a no start situation. When it starts, it sounds strong and correct, no slow crank, whine or grind.

Very familar with gas engines, quickly learning this darn Yanmar.

I checked the voltage at the starter, 12.96V. The relay was the same on one side and equal on the other while my friend pressed the start button. I went out today and it started effortlessly 5-6 times. I checked the starting battery all day for any draw...nothing, 12.95 on the AGM battery. Will check the relay again when the no-start happens, but agree that the part is too cheap and simple to replace to not have a spare. Same with the original starter, going out for a rebuild and I will leave it on the boat.

Question for the board, the starter has the main positive and 2 other "red" feeds, then there is a black wire with a connector. Is that a ground? The wire on the starter side of the connector is black but the engine side is red, so I am wondering.

The good news is we has a nice day on the water, hoping for 2 more days.

Thanks

[twenham]

I know a mercruiser is a totally different beast but a similar situation had been happening on my boat. It turns out on Mercruiser I would get a click but the starter was not turning over. Turns out there are two relays on my engine. One actuates the other. When I heard the click I thought either low battery or bad connection. I thought relay is clicking. Mechanic listened and then jumped the relay with a pair of pliers and it fired up immediately. Like I said different beast but similar symptoms. First relay is hidden below the top relay in my boat with a Mercruiser. Good luck very frustrating.
Tim

[Paddy]

I agree, I spent this week reading up as much as I can on this intermittent start issue and all signs point to the starter relay. The relay on my boat has been replaced already and it has a "cheap" knock off appearance. Ironically, the boat continues to start with no issues since last Friday, I even took it out for a spin tonight.

I called Mac Boring in NJ today. The rep told me that a new part number supersedes the older number and the cost is 4x more, $100 vs $25, but maybe they figured out the starter relay issues. Paid for a Boatdiesel.com membership too, many complaints about the no-start issue and faulty relay. Needless to say, going for the $100 part either way. Hoping that a new relay and checking / cleaning my connections (again) will do the trick.

Will keep you all posted.

[Paddy]

Well, after buying and installing a new relay, I realized that I was mis-diagnosing the problem. Both the old and new relay could be jumped to start the boat, which pointed me back to the start button and ignition. Turns out it is a worn out ignition switch. I'm mad that I wasted so much time on the wrong parts but relieved at the same time. Simply giggling the key and pressing start button fired it right up. At least I have a backup starter and relay now.

[DougSea]

Simply giggling the key and pressing start button fired it right up. At least I have a backup starter and relay now.

Good news, but be careful. The ignition key on Sonny III failed and wouldn't always return to RUN from START. I was having work done one day and the mechanic didn't see the note about the switch. I figure it stayed engaged for at least 5 minutes.

They ended up buying me a new starter...

[Paddy]

Thanks Doug. Not taking any chances, figured I was on a roll with the starter and relay, so I threw a new ignition switch and starter button in today. After that, I installed the new Seastar 5313 as the stock 5312 was cutting it for me. Still need to bleed the steering one more time as it is good but not perfect. Hoping for a relaxing Sunday on the hook.

[coolchange]

My 2 cents on an older post....after blaming the batteries, corroded wires, and the rest of what is mentioned I spent the summer with a jerry-rigged switch that jumped the starter...but then, even though the pros had said the switch was OK, I changed the switch...no more problems! (a Voltage test showed the switch worked..but only enough to light the light..not start the engine)

[Paddy]

Knock on wood, no problems since then, BUT, believe it or not, a week after thinking it was fixed with the ignition key swap-out, the intermittent relay issue came back. i left the old relay on thinking it was the key, but kept the new, upgraded one as a spare. A quick swap out and its been starting without issue ever since.

BTW, I took a chance with an Ebay supplier for the starter, $160 for a rebuilt with no core charge...shipped in 48 hours via fedex. Maybe I lucked out, but it works great and I have the other as a spare. Just in case anyone is looking for a rebuilt starter or alternator at half the price.