Looking To Buy and questions

[jcollins]

Proper prop size depends on the engine. My 2002 engine box 28 with the Yanmar 315 has a left hand 4 blade 19" X 19". I believe all of the engine box models use a left hand prop due to the transmission reversing the rotation of the prop shaft. This is certainly true of those with Yanmar engines. The flush deck models I believe have right hand props since the engine/transmission is installed in the conventional manner.

Thanks Lou! I should have known that by now.

[lpbp]

Hey fellows in the Annapolis area . Does anybody know anything about the 93- 28 for sale in Annapolis at Annapolis yacht sales . .Name ,[ No name on hull ] former owners , any history at all . Same one talked about in the earlier post . Anything at all would help thx lpbp

[lpbp]

Forgot to ask what is the core material used in the Albin boats of the 90 ,s

[furball]

FWIW, I have a 2006 flushdeck, prop is Left Handed, 19 X18.
John

[lpbp]

Could LPBP get a used Albin for Christmas , Or just a lump of Coal Only time and money will tell . Fingers crossed

[jcollins]

lpbp,
Check out that one on Ebay right now. There is a link in our For Sale forum. Tell Santa to click on "buy it now".

[lpbp]

I saw that one . We are putting a offer on a 28 within the next 2 days . alittle closer to home than that one . Fingers are crossed ! Wife still asking where she will get the time between work , her 2 hay burners and now a boat . That one on e bay looks lake a deal , wonder if she will go like the one in Florida did

[joe.baar]

lpbp,
Re: your 11/20/09 post, I believe Ric Murray's bloviation about maneuvering is concise and definitive:

"Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:12 am

I have written about this here before, but as the topic has come up again I'll free to bloviate further. I have found that the trick to handling these boats is to separate (at least mentally) rotational force and momentum from forward and backward force and momentum. I never use the wheel when docking, turn the helm hard to port and leave it alone. When you want counter clockwise rotation, a kick with the throttle forward will start the boat moving forward and rotating counter clockwise around it's center of gravity (the engine). A brief burst of reverse will counter the forward motion, but not kill the rotation as the rudder is useless when moving backward through the water, and the prop walk will pull the stern to starboard, slightly re-enforcing the counter clockwise rotation. Once you get the hang of this you can turn the boat 180 or 360 degrees in a little more than her own length, just by nicking it carefully back and forth from forward to reverse, IF the tide and the wind are not carrying you. What about if you want to go clockwise? Don't bother trying, it don't happen. Plan your docking maneuvers to involve only counter clockwise rotation, even if it involves a 90, 180, or 270, to get lined up. Add the bow thruster to the above equation, pushing the bow to port with bursts and you can rotate this boat in a way that will make all other captains envious.

Once you have the boat sort of lined up with the slip, start applying reverse in short bursts. Reverse will kill the rotational momentum and the boat should move backward in a more or less straight line. If you keep reverse engaged you will indeed get prop walk to starboard, which is why I just kick it into reverse for a second or two then back to neutral. If the prop ain't turning, it won't walk. Neutral is your friend. Anxiety and the need to "get this over with" is your enemy. Xanax can help (you or the admiral). There is never a reason to have the boat in gear and the thruster running at the same time. Use the thruster and forward (with the helm hard to port) to achieve rotation, then reverse to kill rotation and slide, stern gracefully, into your slip. Forward or reverse motion negates the effect of the bow thruster. Use the thruster to get lined up, then power to move the boat forward or back.

Docking a single screw boat is a mental exercise above all others. Physics, psychology, sociology, all wrapped up together.
For inspiration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdI3-LHiCng "

I tie up starboard side to, within three feet of my neighbor and bow in. After two summers of practice I understand both what Ric is saying and why I can neither nose in easily nor back out predictably. Everything about this position is wrong. However I learn more each time I practice and some day I will be able to perform these evolutions confidently even in a light breeze. First of all, don't be in a hurry. Second, never imagine your boat will steer when going astern. Third, don't expect help from the thruster, learn to do it the old way. Fourth, spring lines are always helpful if your crew understands physics. Last, never go faster than the speed you want to hit something.
Best wishes and good luck.

[lpbp]

Had a hard time finding my posts , Moved somewhere else ? Joe your Boat handling coments where well written , But my question was will the 28 rudder Help her steer in reverse . On a lot of boats with a proper leed on the rudder and if it is big enough will help a boat going astern . But what you are saying is that the tranverse thrust of the prop is to strong .{ walking of the stern caused buy prop rotation} Buy looking at some of the prop sizes posted , these props are almost square , meaning size to pitch ratio . My meaning was that once you start astern and shut the engine dwn by putting the rudder hard over will it decrease the speed of the stern moving in that direction . But the more I thought of it since writing it the first time is that the sterns on these boats are square and not ship shape . There is the difference I think . Now talking about rudders , the Becker rudder is something to have . this is a rudder on a rudder . Whe n you put 10 degrees helm on ,the flap on the back of the rudder will move 10 more than the rudder , so you have 20 degrees of rudder , 10 on the rudder and ten on the flap . Now these are nice for manuvering , because when you are docking and undocking , you put the helm hard over [40 to 45 degrees ] the flap goes the same so than yo have a rudder that is around 90 degrees and acts like a stern thruster untill you get to much head way on it . But i have only seem than on the big ships , and they are nice . Hope fully this post will go where it is supposed to go.
Putting in a offer in to day on a 28 All the best guys

[joe.baar]

lpbp,
The 28TE's rudder is sized small so the boat will steer properly - that is, without wobbling or other bad behaviors - at high speed. The rudder is too small to be of any real use unless prop wash is going past it. These boats are not sailboats or tugboats. You are correct, the flat stern, even though it has a v-shape, combined with the square prop and small rudder area, make steering while going astern something I consider virtually impossible. There was an article in PassageMaker magazine, I think, last year about those rudder extensions and they did come highly recommended. However, rudder size is related to a lot of factors that need to be seriously and scientifically considered so I'd suggest reading up on it and consulting with someone professionally knowledgeable before making any changes. Once again, take care.

[lpbp]

To go even one step further is to increase the bow thruster HP so that it will over come the walking of the stern or transverse thrust as it is called . . On the Great Lakes here , the great lake style ships have large thrusters and are nice for backing out of some ports and rivers . We use to haul stone into Bay City Mich,[ home of Bob Sieger] and go up the Saginaw river about 18 miles to a dock just past I 75 Bridge . When finished unloading we would back dwn the river 6 miles to a turning basin buy the Bay City Airport . I think there where 7 bends we had to go around to get there . But the thing was is that you left the rudder amidships and went astern at a slow speed and just used the thruster like a rudder . It was amazing how nice and easy it was ,along as there was no wind. But ! But ! a 800 hp thruster . with a 4ft thruster tunnel. and 6000hp main engine . so the thruster was greater than 10% of the main engine . so that would mean a Albin with a 300 yanmar would need about 30 hp thruster . Just like having a 30 hp merc out board on the bow with a 8inch prop could you just imagine backing up then . it wouldnt matter if you had a right or left hand prop ,you could back up anywhere with out taking the engine off . But you get the drift on the big hp thruster. But when you lose that thruster , does life go for a S%*t in a hurry . Lost it once right beside a marina and in the wind .640 ft of steel setting dwn on 400 ft of finger piers filled with fiberglass boats . Had to us the poor mans thrusters ---Bow and stern anchors ! Had to almost change the shorts that day . Ah sorry aboat the sea story . Take care hoping to here on our offer buy next week . LPBP

[RicM]

Let's get this down to basic physics. On any inboard config the rudder, in reverse will have a minimal to no effect on the handling of the vessel unless it's (backward) speed through the water is enough to establish steerage and overcome the other factors like the skeg, the submerged length of the boat etc. The speed required for that to happen is WAY faster than you want to approach the dock, trust me. The hull on a 28TE is 28 ft long and 10 feet wide. It wants to go in one direction, forward. The next best direction is reverse. It is NOT made, designed, or meant to go sideways or in circles. Outboards and I/O's WANT to go in circles, because the power is on a hinge suspended on the transom. When the power is applied at an angle to the keel (just like a bow thruster) the boat will, against it's design, rotate, rather than move forward or back. That's over when you buy an Albin. Trying to "steer" this boat in reverse will only result in frustration and entertainment for those on the dock. Stop. Use the thruster to point the stern where you want to go, then engage reverse briefly. Go to neutral. Use the thruster to adjust the direction. Engage reverse again. Repeat until a graceful landing is assured. Use the boat's properties to achieve your goal. Trying to "drive" it the way you wish it would work will only result in frustration. Bow thruster dead? Use the same principal with throttle (forward power) and rudder to position the stern, then reverse to move toward the slip, rudder & forward power to rotate and correct the angle, then reverse again. It works.

[lpbp]

Well Rick , well put . It doens,t matter how big and how much power ,the faster you are moving through the water the less a thruster will work . Once you are going over 3 kts, your thruter power curve is going south . I looked up the vetus thrusters and was a little suprised at how low the power was . I thought it would have been twice that . Also your time limits of use . So this all said .I do agree with your explanation on reverseing and docking . The fine line of kicking the engine astern and the small thrusts to keep the intended direction is all in the fun of boat handiling and the satisfaction of making it go where you want it to go . And doing it on a windy day and perfect even makes it Better. I guess you have found that the more you perfect your docking , that the thruster use is getting less . Also using what ever mother nature throws at you and learning how to read it to your advantage is always a learning and satisfying experience .

[special k]

if i hadn't just purchased my 28 last july i would be all over the one on ebay and on my way to NC.
best value on an albin 28 of all listed in the entire nation. imho. and my search lasted a year!

[RobS]

No transom door on the eBay 28. Not a biggie to some but certainly a priority for others...