Peninsular Front Main Seal Leak

[RWP]

The 1998 Albin 28 TE that I am under contract to purchase had its survey and sea trial today. There were a variety of issues -- mostly small stuff-- except one. Under reasonably heavy load, the front main engine seal began to leak, perhaps a few tablespoons every 20 seconds or so. The engine surveyor ordered an end to the high rpm test, fearing the seal could blow out completely. The interesting part is that the owner had the engine removed from the boat last year to have that very seal replaced. He had put only about for or five hours on the engine before the second failire. Naturally, the owner is going to insist that the yard repeat the repair w/o charge, and now my quandry is whether to accept the boat after the reapir is done (and the engine surveyor confirms the success of the repair and completes the sea trial). Is this a common failure in these engines? (It is the Peninsular 6.5 liter rated at 330 hp at 3600 rpm). I have searched this topic and found nothing, which may say more for my search skills than anything. We did not do an oil analysis because the oil has only 5 hours of use -- and I may run away from this boat due to the engine leak issue. Any thoughts? Similar experiences? Thanks in advance.

[jcollins]

I have not heard of that particular problem with the Peninsular. Brands aside, is the yard qualified? Do you know them? Will you stay there? Will they see any future income from you? If not, my cynicism would ask...if they will never see you again, why would they care about doing a perfect job? Patch it up and get it out the door with as little expense on their part as possible. They have already been paid once to do a good job. How is their reputation for this type of work? If you don't feel good about it, walk away. It's also possible the owner told them to just pach up and let the next guy worry about.
You mentioned before that this engine was replaced in 2000?
Is it the one in Cape Coral? The price is the lowest of the eight 1998's on Yachtworld.
You could always offer 6k less to cover future problems.

There are many good deals out there. Even on Albins.

I'm a little tired tonight, you can probably tell from my post.

[RobS]

The GM made blocks in the mid to late 90's had machining problems. Peninsular has thegroup of serial numbers that are in the problem group. I'd get the serial number and call Peninsular. They are good to speak with, very helpful. I think the guy to speak with is Matt, if memory serves. Here is the link to the contact info on thier site.

http://www.peninsulardiesel.com/contact.html

[RWP]

JCollins...great advice, thanks. No, I don't know the yard at all, but the engine surveyor (who is regarded as one of the very best on the Gulf Coast side of FL), says it has a good reputation. My thought is to require the seller to put, say, $7500 in escrow for two years or so to cover any recurrence of the problem. That way he has an incentive to encourage the yard to do the job right this time. In addition, I am going to get an estimate on fixing the two "A" findings on the survey, a bunch of the "B" findings, and reduce my price by at least that much. Even so, I just don't know if that boat is worth owning at any price. Isn't boat ownership supposed to be fun? Right now I feel like I'm going through a meat grinder and I'm not enjoying it at all! Maybe I'll just walk away and try again next fall...let all the current owners sweat summertime hurricane season.

You have also correctly identified the boat. My conclusion from the survey results is that the boat has probably not been abused but there have been some el-cheapo repairs and additions, and a fair amount of deferred maintenance.

I do have the s/n on the engine and plan to call Peninuslar. I had one reassuring conversation with them about parts availability prior to the survey.

[RicM]

You are very right that boating is supposed to fun. If it's that upsetting than I would definitely consider walking away. In this economy there is ALWAYS going to be another boat at very good price. If this boat turns into a nightmare you will be kicking yourself for years. As for $7500 in escrow for 2 years, I doubt that will happen. They are selling their boat because they need the money for something else. What is the final sell price to you? What would it cost to repower?

[jcollins]

I agree that the seller probably wouldn't go for that. The asking price is already low on that boat. I wouldn't. Now, if you can get him to reduce the price 7500 and you are more fiscally responsible than I, you could put the money into a repair fund. I tried that with my "awlgrip fund". Had money in hand and then, as usual, something came up that was more important. More important than the boat!!??? Yes, there are a few things.

[RWP]

Well, clearly I'm interested in this boat because it MAY be a deal. I think the owner priced it lower because he really wants to sell the boat, stand out from the competition, and understands it is a buyer's market. In fact, the boat shows better than a similar one we saw over on the east coast of FL for $10K more, also with the Peninsular. I think the owner was a little surprised by all the faults the survey revealed: no major structural defects, but a ton of smaller things, including a variety of pumps that don't
work, some wiring that isn't up to code, cutlass bearning on the way out, etc.

I can see why the owner might not agree to my escrow idea...but I do need to figure out a way to hold the yard accountable for its work. The other challenge is that if I do buy the boat, it will be about 200 miles from the yard -- and how will they be able to fix it from that distance? This issue may be unresolvable. The owner paid $7K last year to have the engine removed from the boat and that seal replaced. The yard must have botched the job. Who would expect a major repair like that to fail after just four or five hours of running time? Maybe the deal becomes something like this: the yard fixes the engine and guarantees it somehow and then I reduce my offer by $6K or so. Right now the contract price is $51,500 -- a good deal if the engine and boat are solid -- and a bad deal if they are not! Peninsuala told me previously that a long block should run no more than $10K including installation.

Anyway, I sure appreciate all the comments, suggestions, and feedback. It is all very helpful.

[RicM]

Dude!
If you can buy a 28TE for $61K including repower you have a deal! Buy it, let it fail you might get 1-4 seasons out of it, throw away the Pennisular, put in a Yanmar 6LP (bottom line 28 TE w/ new Yanmar power for about $80-85K) and you are golden. There's no 28TE with existing Yanmar 6LP power for less than $90K that I've seen.

[jcollins]

Your at 51,500 now? I have agree with Ric. Except that part about throwing away the Peninsular.

[Denis]

I am pretty sure there are no engine manufacturers out there, surely none of the ones that have engines in the various Albin models that can claim they have no problems. I have a 94 Peninsular in my Albin that has had absolutely no problems at all. It's as quiet as any diesel boat I have ever been on, it does not smoke after the initial start up, it's very efficient and it is easy and inexpensive to maintain. Call Peninsular to check on the serial number of the engine you are looking at, they will be right up front with you ( a real live person no less) weather that run number had a problem or not. If it was manufactured before or after the noted trouble years than stop worrying and enjoy your boat. Have satisfaction in the fact that your boat is running an engine that was made in the USA, has a manufacturer that will back you up with spare parts and advice and that it costs you less than $50 per year for maintenance.
As far as the front seal leaking, if someone performs the repair that does not know what they were doing or is not observant enough while doing it than any engine can have a reoccurring problem. A good mechanic is worth a pound of gold. Good luck getting any marina to back up their work, especially if it was not done for you. Enjoy your Albin if you decide to buy it. Denis

[RWP]

Denis, thanks for the vote of confidence on the Peninsular. I spoke to someone there just this morning about the seal leak and was reassured that it is not a common problem. You're spot on about them being responsive and cooperative. Clearly, the yard screwed up somehow in last year's repair. Peninsular suggested a couple of things to look at -- and I am going to insist that the shop come up with a plausible explanation of what they did wrong last year and why it won't happen again. The yard has built a good reputation over many years; I hope they don't want it destroyed in a heartbeat! I will call Peninsular back with the serial number, but since the original engine was replaced under warranty in 2000, my guess is the new one is not in the problem range. But I will confirm that for sure.

If I do buy this boat, I have learned some very valuable lessons from the current owner:
1. Be able to document the routine maintenance.
2. Wash the boat and clean out the clutter before you try to sell it!
3. If you say everything works, be sure it does.
4. Throw away the rose-colored glasses. Look at the boat as a prospective buyer, not as the owner.
5. Let the broker show the boat. Don't get in the way.

I am taking this purchase step by step. Next, the yard must repair the engine. Then the boat must pass the rest of the sea trial. I'll report back on the final outcome...or chime in with more questions if they develop. Thanks again to everyone for all the very helpful comments!

[RobS]

I will call Peninsular back with the serial number, but since the original engine was replaced under warranty in 2000, my guess is the new one is not in the problem range. But I will confirm that for sure.

You're probably right but doesn't hurt to call and get whatever info they can give you off that seril number.

2. Wash the boat and clean out the clutter before you try to sell it!

That one has always amazed me !