Overfill Oil on Yanmar 315

[RobS]

Well I did learn that I was supposed to be filling my oil filter with oil before installing.

Not on our engines unless you have a "Gravity Over-Ride Switch." You'll have oil everywhere but in the filter by the time you get her spun on. Only precautionary measure is to crank with the "Stop" button depressed until oil pressure is registered then fire her up.

[RicM]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I meant, REALLY!

[Cape Codder]

On my 2003 Yanmar 315, I won't be pre-filling my oil filter!!
It's placed upside-down on my engine block, at a slight angle.

In additon, when I change my oil, I drain in excess of a quart out of the oil cooler. If you don't drain it, you need to subtract that amount from your expected capacity in the 6LP.

I'm also thinking of switching from 15W-40, to all synthetic 5W-40, which still exceeds CF-4, and SL, SJ and SHs rating and remains very fluid at all temps.
The new BMW block Yanmars require this grade oil.

Much easier to pour and remove. (But abouit twice the price)

[Mariner]

The filter on our Cat 3126B is vertical and can be mostly filled prior to installation, which I do.

I don't see how cranking the motor with the stop button depressed would be any different than just firing it up. Slightly lower RPM? I mean, the concern is that you're running the internals without lubrication, right? That isn't going to be any different whether there is combustion happening nor not.

[RobS]

By cranking and not starting the engine you are simply rotating the moving parts. When she's fired there is a tremendous load at the upper and lower ends of the connecting rod from the force of combustion thus creating much more friction between the components. There is also a higher rpm rotation.

[RicM]

A lot would depend on what kind of oil you are using also. Dino oil clings to metal parts rather well between uses. Synthetic does not and tends to leave parts dryer on start up. Over at boatdiesel.com there have been thousands of words written on the topic of oil and it's properties in a diesel engine. My understanding is that a lot of lubrication & cooling of the upper end of the engine components comes from the diesel fuel itself.

[Mariner]

By cranking and not starting the engine you are simply rotating the moving parts. When she's fired there is a tremendous load at the upper and lower ends of the connecting rod from the force of combustion thus creating much more friction between the components. There is also a higher rpm rotation.

I don't know. I hear what you're saying about the extra force from combustion, but this would really only affect the wrist pin and rod bearing. The rod bearing is immersed in oil on every rotation anyway, regardless of whether there is combustion. And the wrist pin is never lubricated (aside from grease installed at the time it's assembled). And as for the speed of the engine, I can only speak for our Caterpillar, but it cranks at about 800 rpm and idles at 700. So, once the engine fires over, it actually slows down.

Also, pressing the "stop" button may not have the same effect on every engine. On some engines, this stops the fuel pump, on others, it relieves compression.

[RobS]

I don't know. I hear what you're saying about the extra force from combustion, but this would really only affect the wrist pin and rod bearing. The rod bearing is immersed in oil on every rotation anyway, regardless of whether there is combustion. And the wrist pin is never lubricated (aside from grease installed at the time it's assembled). And as for the speed of the engine, I can only speak for our Caterpillar, but it cranks at about 800 rpm and idles at 700. So, once the engine fires over, it actually slows down.

Also, pressing the "stop" button may not have the same effect on every engine. On some engines, this stops the fuel pump, on others, it relieves compression.

Cranking the engine over before firing it allows for filling all of the oil galleys in the components and covering them in oil before the extra load of combustion is placed on the crank and rod bearing. All of the low end bearings are pressure lubed, the crank is hollow and cross-drilled, etc.

The rod bearing is NOT immersed in oil. If the rod were to come into contact with the oil in the oil pan it would result in a foaming condition of the oil and the oil pump would no longer operate as designed. This is the reason it is important not to overfill the oil level. The old 6cyl Chevy was a splash-oiler.

However, there are piston cooling nozzles that spray oil to the underside of the piston but this is for cooling the pistons, nothing to do with lubrication.

The 6LP cranks over much slower than it idles at once running.

It does not matter which method is triggered by the stop button to kill the engine. As long it is just turning over, not firing.

[RobS]

I'm also thinking of switching from 15W-40, to all synthetic 5W-40, which still exceeds CF-4, and SL, SJ and SHs rating and remains very fluid at all temps.
The new BMW block Yanmars require this grade oil.

Much easier to pour and remove. (But abouit twice the price)

The new BMW block Yanmar requires synthetic because it is a physically smaller engine (higher HP per liter) which runs at a higher temperature than our 6LP.

[Cape Codder]

Rob,
You're right; the newer BMW blocks are running hotter and require the synthetic oils.

When I went to the landfill tank to dispose of my waste oil, it was a pretty cold day, and the oil had been sitting in my garage for a week or two.
Admittedly, it was cold, but that "gunk" was so thick I couldn't believe it!

It makes sense to me in having oil "thin", so it can circulate rapidly preventing wear on moving parts. But "thick" enough to handle the high temps.
That's why I leaning to all synthetic next season. The oil gets to where it needs to be quickly, but still has enough to handle the heat of the newer blocks.

[RicM]

called Synthetic oil? Once again, boatdiesel.com has beat this to everloving death, and the conclusion is.....that if you run your boat every day, synthetics are the best. If, like most of us your boat sits for a week, then gets fired up on Friday or Satuday, not so good...a sample exchange from boatdiesel.com

Originator: Tony I [email] Level 1 Member Date: January 17, 2008 - 09:43 PM
This is my first diesel boat and I want to treat the engines right so the first oil change I upgraded to Synthetic 15w40. My Volvo guy said that was a mistake. I been using synthetic oil in my 1999 Silverado and with 200k miles on the engine it runs new, compression like new specs.
What harm could this oil do my volvols?

Thanks



Response #1 from: Inlet Marine Services Inc [email] Level 2 Member Date: January 18, 2008 - 12:58 PM
synthetic oils are a great thing and they can be a nightmare. There is three types of synthetic oil base 3, base 4 and base 5. Depending on what brand you are using you can have different effects. The true synthetics are the base 4 and 5, these are great oil but are closed molacule so in an older motor these oils can leak. I sell Amsoil which is a base 4 oil and they put in a seal sweller to try to prevent oil leaks but it still happens. I have customers all the time switching to synthetic oils I just ask how old and how many hours on the motors. Just think a base 4 or 5 motor or transmission oil that can take up 100 degree hotter before breaking down, this can be the difference between life and death of your motor or trans. New oil through Amsoils marine oils can take up to 10% water and not stop lubricating. Maybe there is a reason that Europe is 80% or greater Synthetic.

Inlet Marine Services INC
1110 N Lilly RD,Olympia,
Washington, 98506,
United States
Tel: 360-491-4323, Fax: 360-491-1003, , Email

Response #2 from: 38Blackfin [email] Level 1 Member Date: January 18, 2008 - 03:58 PM
As an old dragracer, we used the synthetics extensively, for everything. In fact Amsoil was/is widely used.

Our problem was drain-off, or cling. When the engines sat for any length of time, parts would end up completely dry. The bottom of the intakes would dry to the point of rust, as would rods, cyl walls, etc. So those of who didn't run weekly switched back to dino-oil, in light weights.

So, my view is that synthetic has big benefits for the folks who run almost everyday, and drawbacks for those who don't.

Randy

[RobS]

I'm usually a "do what the book says" guy when it comes to this stuff. I see no reason to change over to synthetic. As far as the thick viscosity - always get the engine warm for an oil change, don't have the new stuff real cold and it will pour easily and if you're concerned about running the engine on cold days crank with the stop buttom depressed to help get some oil pressure up before starting.

Ric, thanks for the clip from BD - I actually just remembered that my $10 is due.

[RobS]

When I went to the landfill tank to dispose of my waste oil, it was a pretty cold day, and the oil had been sitting in my garage for a week or two.
Admittedly, it was cold, but that "gunk" was so thick I couldn't believe it!

Bob,
Regarding the container the waste oil was in: was it the new containers from the replacement oil or dedicated containers you always reuse for waste oil. I do all my own vehicle oil changes so I have some 5 gallon waste oil containers. I know that each time you dump these out there is sediment etc. that settles out and stays in the container and is never emptied so they get very gooey over time.

[pcthornton]

Ric - how can you fill the oil filter before installing, when the oil filter on the Yanmar faces down? That must be quite messy. Does the few seconds it takes for the new oil to circulate through the filter really make a difference?

[RicM]

UMMM as Rob said you need the gravity reversal switch handy. If you don't have one just don't start the engine and leave the dock at full throttle under full load.