Bilge Pumps

[krc]

Hi - On our express trawler 36 we have three bilge pumps (Johnson 2200 w/ float sensor). These appear to be wired into the battery systems and also linked to a switch box so that you can manually start up either one. I have had a situation now where it looks like I had a battery drain situation and it started taking on water. The water is fresh water so it must be from some recent storms. Still need to find the leaks, but that is another issue. It also appears that the middle pump had failed as I found a cut wire (not sure how that happened).

It would seem to me that if you are on shore power, would it be advisable to have one additional bilge pump that is wired to shore with a AC/DC converter? This way, even if the battery system fails for some reason, there is still a backup plan. Also, if let's say there is a leak and the pumps come on continuously, should the charger be able to keep the batteries charged up? (I don't think I had left the charger on).

Any thoughts appreciated.

[rt11002003]

To comment on your idea of having an extra bilge pump driven by an AC/DC converter connnected to shore power: it should work as long as one has shore power, which is not always the case, storms, etc.; the pump pickup should reach all the bilge compartments and have significant capacity. I'd think about using an AC driven pump avoiding the possibility of converter failure. One could probably find a large capacity 110/115/120 volt pump at a hardware supplier. An automatic float switch to handle 110/115/120 volts might be a problem.


One can compute the power available from the batteries to drive all bilge pumps at the same time and determine how long they would continue to do so. Then determine the power produced by the battery charger to see if it could keep the batteries charged. I suspect a major leak would result in the batteries, the bilge pumps and the charger not being able to keep up over a significant period of time.

Maybe a bilge alarm system that would automatically call your telephone or the telephone of another responder would add to one's peace of mind.

I've always kept my automatic battery chargers on. It cost me two batteries last year. However, I then went to a new technology battery charger hoping to avoid the overcharging issue.

Hope this missive will help you think about the issue.

Gene

[krc]

Yes. I was thinking of this as a "backup" system, so the extra bilge pump would be set higher than the battery-based pumps. That way, if the charger fails, battery fails, there is another redundant electrical system to manage. I like your idea of an AC based pump - will look into that. Next to think about is how to put a new exit hose.... And yes, shore power is contingent here.

Of course, finding the water egress location would be helpful too. Has anyone had a problem with leaking scuppers on these boats? Any other areas where I can look for leaks?

[krc]

I was thinking originally of going the AC/DC route, and tying into the main panel in either case (AC side). So, when with shore power, I am running off AC (whether to buy AC pumpr or AC/DC converter will depend on price - AC pumps I have seen by rule are quite expensive compared to DC). If I tie into the panel, then I can also have this available in emergency when the generator is running. Does this make sense? The panel has a switch to run off shore or gen.

[rt11002003]

Your idea of tying into the panel seems to make sense to me assuming the pump hookup is tied in downstream of the AC source, whether it be shore power or genset. I'm not sure how your panel handles shore power vs genset.

Gene

[Russell]

Most bilge pumps are rated around 2 amps while battery chargers are rated 10 amps and above. I see no reason to go to the expense of an AC pump. If you have drain hoses from deck hatches they gradually fill with dirt and overflow a heavy rain into the bilge. I periodically place a hose in the opening and flush them out.

[Mariner]

Yeah, unless you have an unusually wimpy battery charger, your charging system should have no problem whatsoever keeping up with all three pumps operating simultaneously.

I would not further complicate matters by installing an AC pump. Instead, I would install a high water alarm, possibly with another bilge pump, at a spot that is higher than the normal pumps. The siren for this would be audible outside the boat for a great distance. Loud enough that no one will ignore it. Possibly with an external waterproof switch so that the neighbor can turn it off after he contacts you to let you know the alarm is going off. There should be a sign or plaque in the dockside window with every imaginable phone number for contacting you.

If you're really concerned about the house battery going dead, and the boat flooding, you can set this high water alarm and pump up with it's own isolated battery so that it will run, even if the main battery is dead. It would need to be connected to the main battery through an isolator, so that it will stay charged.

Water ingress on these boats can come from a number of different places. Obviously, leaking scuppers is one. This should be pretty easy to check. Have the admiral spray the scuppers with a garden hose while you crawl around below deck and observe the hoses. All the scuppers should be visible from the engine compartment with a minimum of contortion and possibly a flashlight.

Another would be leaking freshwater plumbing. This would be pretty obvious as you would be losing water from your tank. In our boat, a leaky shower head was causing us to lose about 50 gallons a day, one drip at a time. We didn't notice it, becuase it drained into the shower, down the shower drain, and then backed up the shower sump (which was left turned off) and spilled into the forward bilge, where it was pumped overboard by the foward bilge pump, which you can't see or hear. An indicator light light or cycle counter for the bilge pump would have tipped me off earlier. We had this, along with an alarm, installed on our last boat, which was as tight as a....well it was tight. The alarm only went off once, which means in the three years we owned the boat, the bilge pump only came on once!

Unfortunately, the 36' Express Trawler is not that watertight. The place where we repeatedly have water ingress problems is actually via the rigging tunnel from the flybridge. The flybridge drains into the area under the seats. The scuppers that drain water out of those lockers to the deck below often clog. Conscequently, these lockers often fill up with rain water. Once they get about an inch of water in them, it overflows into the rigging tunnel in the aft starboard corner of the flybridge. This runs directly to the bilge, though some water may get diverted into the cabinets in the galley, or to the cabin sole. You would not believe the amount of water that can get into the boat in this manner.

The best way to quantify it is to tell you about another problem we were having. Our boat came with a sunbrella cover for the entire flybridge. Unfortunately, it pools water. The few times we've used it, I've returned to the boat to find the flybridge filled to the brim with what must be several hundred gallons of water. The boat becomes very unstable and will list as much as 10 or 15 degrees as soon as you step on the swimstep, and then dump 50 gallons or so of water over the edge of the flybridge, which, of course, makes it's way right back to the edge of the cockpit cover, and onto your head as you step aboard.

If that cover can accumulate that amount of water in a couple weeks of Seattle rain, I don't even want to know how much water is going straight into the bilge when those scuppers back up.

The best thing you can do is check on your boat regularly. I suggest at least weekly, and immediately before any expected heavy rain. Check that all the scuppers are draining properly, and that no water has accumulated in the bilge for flybridge lockers. Check the battery voltage and test the bilge pumps to make sure they come on.

[jcollins]

The PO of my boat ran a clear, hard, silicone bead around all the deck hatches. Not on the edge, but just inside of the edge where it meets the deck. I hardly ever have water in the bilge. It just runs out the scuppers overboard. Because of dog hair I have to keep an eye on it.
I like the idea of the bilge pump cycle timer. It gives you an idea of how many times your pumps cycle during the week.
It's on my todo list. (been there for about a year)