Yanmar valve guide issue...

[mhanna]

Back in Feb I had conversation with RobS (thanks for the info btw) about a ticking noise when I decelerate. A few times in 2007 I heard a slight ticking noise when decelerating, I assumed it was the valves ticking because of lower oil pressure and the noise did not last for more than several seconds. From the forums I heard the noise to indicate the valve problem sounded like a can of marbles, Rob advises thats when it too late.
So... I get in contact with 2 Yanmar service facilities near me and talk to them, they both say that I should have the valve work done. One tells me it would take some time to go through the process, the other says they can get the work done and we will see what we can do to get Yanmar to pay for most of it. I decide for various reasons to go with the one that said it was going to take some time because its still early (March then) and I had time.
I was told to get it started before the spring launch season when the yard gets busy, I splash the boat first week in April and drive it over.
During the almost 3 month process I though it would never get done and was mad at the slow going but now that I put it all down on paper I see there was alot to do. I am very happy with the service I got and think that if the mechanics shop was not as aggressive as they were I would not have won this one.
Below is a rough layout of what happened. There are many items that could have stopped the process, I consider myself lucky to get through all of them.

Week 1: Getting the Engine registered to me, something you do not think of on an out of warranty item. Had to get bill of sale and they wanted the original delivery sea trial paperwork ( I had it from owner, not 100% sure I needed this but they asked and I had). Then my mech filing for the class action lawsuit through Mac Boring.
Week 2: I am advised that I need valve adjustment service records, I call original owner and he has them, and mails to me. (If no records are available stop right here....)
Week 3: Receive maint records and submit.
Week 4-5: Get ok do have sea trail, tachometer test, compression test and to listen for the "noise". Mech schedules test and trail. They do not hear noise and I have good compression, my tach reads within 50 RPM of electronic one (appears that if they are off , they may not wish to cover as engine could have been over revved)
Week 6: They do not want to cover as they say no issues are observed, my mechanic refutes and advises that something will happen its just a matter of time. It goes back and forth between Mechanic, Mac Boring and lawyers.
Week 7: They give ok for valve and valve guides to be replaced.
Week 8: My mechanic advises that he got Mac Boring to replace head with factory remanufactured head instead of just sending parts because of the long wait.
Week 9: Waiting for head
Week 10: New head arrives, scheduling install.
Week 11: New head gets installed along with other small items I needed to get done
Week 12: I get call to pick it up !!!!!

The engine had 1000hrs on it before the work, with the whole top half replaced I assume it should do that again or more I hope.
I have been getting it ready for the season (although a little late) and will be out there again....


Matt

[Elizabeth Ann]

I'm sorry, am i understanding this correctly. You had to register the engine in your name? With who - Mack Boring? Also, if the valves weren't adjusted or if you didn't have proof of adjustment thats it? It would be your liability?

And who did you use for your repair? Dicksons West?

[RobS]

The engine had 1000hrs on it before the work, with the whole top half replaced I assume it should do that again or more I hope.

Matt, It will not do that again - the valve seals in your reman head are updated. Glad I was able to help in any way. You probably saved $5K and the angravation is now behind you. See you soon.

[mhanna]

Yes I did take it to Dicksons West, they did the head work as well as some minor other things I needed done.
As far as the engine registration, yes it needed to be done with Mac Boring. Apparently the first owner never registered it either. I guess everyone assumes its done when purchased.... oh well.
It sounded like if I did not have the valve adjustment receipts they would not have covered the work. As a matter of fact the 2 valve jobs done (every 250 hours) was done by a Yanmar dealer in NJ but the engine hours where not on the receipt and they had issues with that. I said it was you approved shop so its your issue, they did not push too much more. I cant say if they would not do the job, but it looked like it....
I have never been one to use the dealer for work cars, ect... this time it worked out.

Matt

[Elizabeth Ann]

Hi all,

I have the transfer of ownership form and where to send it to. If any one wants it PM me your email and I'll send it off.

Or alternatively, maybe someone can tell me how you can link a file to the website....it in an excel spreadsheet.

Also regarding the warranty on these motors. The lady told me they are warranted to the ORIGINAL owner for 8 years. I said 'Oh, but I though you were honoring the valve repair?' After that I was asked if I had any knocking.....fortunately I don't.

I was told I should transfer the warranty anyway, so as usual, I received a bunch of mixed messages. It seems to me they are trying not to say too much and will deal with it on a case by case basis.

Does anyone know the true skinny on the warranty and the valves? Based on Matt's experience it seems like they are fixing them.

[mhanna]

If I had the engine registered it may have saved me a week in my process so I dont think it would be bad to do it ahead of time.
As far as the valve work it was told to me that they will take each one on a case by case basis. I am not sure what they would have done if I did not have the maintenance records though.
I will point out that I had heard the taps but during their test runs they could not reproduce it, so I guess they believed me or they just knew that those seals needed work and maybe with a little pushing they just did the right thing.

Matt

[Elizabeth Ann]

By the way - how loud are these taps? When coming off a plane I always listen and sometimes I think I hear things, but I'm not sure if I'm being hyper sensitive.

[chiefrcd]

Mine sounded like the rattlling of beer cans full of rocks....more a clackity, clackity, clackity. This only lasted a few seconds and it always happened coming off of about 3300 to 3500 rpms.

[mhanna]

Have you ever started an older car after its been sitting, you hear the valves tapping and then when the oil pressure goes up the noise goes away.
Thats how it sounded but as Chiefrcd pointed out it only happed after coming off of a high run >3000rpms, and it did not happen all the time. I noticed it when coming back into my canal after running across the bay (ie.. slowing down after run) and it only lasted for a few seconds. For me it was a slight tap...tap...tap sound and the noise got lower and went away.
As I mentioned before, I thought that was normal noise until RobS pointed it out to me.
If its happening you will hear it, even the wife pointed it out to me one day, saying whats that noise.
Because of the taps both mechanics told me we needed to do more than just replace the seals.
If they would not pay for the work I would hire someone to just change out the rubber seals. After all that little piece is what might cause the issue, im pretty sure thats what Rob did.

Matt

[Elizabeth Ann]

Thanks for the responses gentleman. It seems like it would be very obvious and load if it is happening.

[RobS]

Because of the taps both mechanics told me we needed to do more than just replace the seals.
If they would not pay for the work I would hire someone to just change out the rubber seals. After all that little piece is what might cause the issue, im pretty sure thats what Rob did.

Matt

I heard of guys who had the interference tapping for many hours and were new to diesels and thought it was normal until they had someone out on the boat who knew better and they just ended up replacing the seals with the new replacement ones and adjusting the valves and had no problems. If the compression is right on and she idles and runs perfectly it’s unlikely a valve has become bent or damaged but one would surely feel more comfortable pulling the head to have a look see to be sure all is well, especially if the tapping went on for any period of time.

We had a pair of 1999 6LP’s in another boat and that motor developed the interference tapping. On that boat we were out doing drifts for fluke and noticed the noise when coming down off of plane when running back up for another drift. That was a 27 Whaler that was repowered from gas engines. The motors sat high in helm area of the boat under the raised seating that was very poorly insulated for sound deadening. Those motors were loud as hell. This however helped us hear the noise instantly and clearly. In the motorbox Albin the motor is way back and properly insulated for sound so I would imagine it would be harder to hear. With our Whaler I believe it was in 2001 and Mac Boring covered that in full. But since we heard it right away that day a couple of times and then ran in on one engine and did not run that engine again Mac Boring ran a few tests on the engine and advised the head did not require pulling and they just updated the seals and she was good to go. We did get them to do the seals on both motors although only the port motor and made the noise. That motor had only 95 hrs on it at the time and was still under warranty. We put many hours on both motors with no problems and really loved those 6LP’s and therefore targeted that motor when Albin hunting.

When I was looking at TOY-RIFIC the broker thought that at one time the seller thought they may have heard the noise once. There were no maintenance records and they were not using the boat so they never pursued any recall work. I looked at the boat twice and once with a Yanmar tech. We ran the motor hard and pulled back on it fast numerous times and nothing. No matter what we did we could not create the noise. With no noise, no maintenance records, etc. going for the recall through Mac Boring was quickly realized to be a dead end. The cost to upgrade the seals became one of the price reductions during the negotiations. I then ran the boat over 100 miles home and no valve noises. I put about 15 hours on her before pulling it the last week of December 07 and we never had a valve noise..

Over the winter the valve seals were changed. We did notice that the number one cylinder exhaust valve was sticky or tight in the valve guide, easily noticeable when compared to the other valves. The number one cylinder exhaust valve is always the problem valve. In speaking with a tech at Mac Boring they said this is the sign that the carbon build-up was beginning to become a problem and next season that valve would have began hanging up. With the seals removed all of the valves & guides were all chemically cleaned of all carbon, etc.

With or without the noise, I would have never been comfortable without having the seals upgraded and based on the feel of that valve it was probably just a problem waiting to happen at some point.

[jms02050]

I've had 1 Yanmar dealer tell me they didn't know of any issue with the 6LP. I figure I'll start making some calls and was wondering if there's a specfic kit from Yanmar used as a preventative fix? I'm looking to ball park the cost of repairs so that I can factor them into negotiations.

Jim

[RobS]

Without pulling the head - the updated valve seals are under $100 and maybe a valve cover gasket. Otherwise it's all labor, probably $1,200 or so in total.