Cutless bearing replacement 32+2

[scottsontherocks]

I’d like to replace the cutlass bearings on my 32+2. Can anybody go into details on what this job takes? I heard that there are two Cutlass bearings on this boat. I have an 1 3/4 inch shift and there are two different cutlass sizes for this shaft. I’d also like to know what size it takes so I can prepare for the effort. Any insight is appreciated.

[BarryG]

Hello SOTR, don't take my word as gospel. I own a 2002 32+2, and since these are single engine boats, I would hazard a guess that there is only one cutlass bering, were the shaft exits the keel. The I don't think the bilge end of the shaft comes through a cutlass. The forward end of the shaft is supported by the coupler, which of course has to be aligned with the transmission flange. Where the shaft enters the bilge, coming forward from the prop, it must go through a shaft seal. Mine utilizes a "Tides" brand seal. The seal is not meant to support the shaft, as the coupler forward and the cutlass, aft. Since many manufactures used different parts as they were priced or cam available, I would have the Cutlass removed and then match it up. I'm pretty handy, but would have the yard do the job. Plenty of videos on YouTube. Good luck.

[scottsontherocks]

I’m looking to have the yard do the work but I like to research the effort as we have a limited production model that doesn’t have much posted on this topic. I have a Norscot dripless that I’ll also replace the seals on. Having parts in hand will minimize time on the hard.

[Nancy]

Hi Steve & Marlene -- in what way is your boat a limited production model?
The only specific info I have is a note I made when we surveyed our 35CB, which says:
"Cutless bearing is a pain -- entire piece has to come off keep. Then that changes alignment."
"Entire piece" -- ugh, that's a little vague. I think it means the strut.

[scottsontherocks]

Limited production meant that you don’t see a lot them and not many yard staff have done one. I read on FB that there are two cutlass bearings and yes a real PITA.

[BarryG]

Nancy and Steve, These are not "limited production" boats. They are standard production builds, albeit with less numbers. Manufactures such as SeaRay, etc, are also standard production boats, but with extremely larger numbers built. Limited production would be brands like Hinckley, Riva, etc. Hand built, one at a time often with each boat a little different from the others as per the buyers custom (keyword for "limited Production") configuration wishes.

Steve,
unless you have a boat with two engines, two shafts and two propellers, your boat with a shaft emanating from a fixed keel, has only one cutlass. The only boats I know of with two cutlass bearings on each shaft is on larger motor yachts with engines placed centrally in the boat. The shafts tend to be very long in order to get the props nearer to the transom. In that case there would be one or two cutlass bearings in one or two "struts". I believe where the shaft where the shaft emanates from the hull there is no cutlass, and depending on how many struts are along the shaft (for support), there is a cutlass in each of the struts. Because the shafts can be so long while hanging under the boat, they tend to whip saw back and forth while turning and no shaft is 100% true or straight. This introduces unwanted vibration. Struts with Cutlass Bearings help reduce that vibration.

Nancy,
our boats do not have struts. The single shaft is supported by the Cutlass inserted into the back end of the keel, right in front of where the shaft emanates from the keel. There is only a short stub of shaft sticking out, to which the propeller is mounted. Yes the aft end of the shaft is supported by the cutlass but the cutlass is inserted directly into the keel. The reason the surveyor mentioned the cutlass was a pain to do is because, on all boats, the shaft needs to come out of the boat completely in order to replace the cutlass bearing. On our boats, in order to remove the shafts we have to first remove the "rudder support shoe" from the bottom of the keel. Then with the bottom of the rudder hanging free, you have to loosen the rudder post coupling from the steering gear in the bilge (Lazarette) and drop the entire rudder with its rudder post down out of the bottom of the boat. Next the prop has to come off, the dripless shaft seal in the bilge has to be loosened (a PIA in our boats as its under the engine, just sayin'). Next the coupling from the transmission to the shaft has to be unbolted, and finally (I think) the coupling has to be removed from the shaft. Now the shaft is free to be slid backwards out the bottom of the boat giving access to the keel with the cutlass. Unless one has the specialized tools required to pull the cutlass out of the keel, this can be a bitch of a job.

Since we went through the trouble and/or expense of getting this far, these are the things I would do after getting the shaft outs...

Send both the shaft and propellers out to be inspected and "Trued". Shafts tend to age and develop wear grooves and things like crevice corrosion that can't be seen with the naked eye. Crevice corrosion can shatter while the boat is underway, the shaft can fall out and sink the boat. They can also develop a "sag" in the length of the shaft. Again vibration! If the shaft is in reasonable shape and can be welded / bent back to true (straight), great. If not... new shaft time, $$$!

Props tend to get sort of "out of shape" for many reasons. I won't go into that here.

Replace the shaft seal with new and have spare seals mounted on the shaft for future use.

Of course the cutlass has to be replaced with new.

The shaft gets reinserted and reverse all the above. NOTE, the shaft coupling must be CAREFULLY aligned with the transmission flange. I'm talking down to the single digit thousandths (0.00X inch)of an inch all the way around the coupling. This is a big deal as it requires the motor mounts to be loosened and the motor moved around to get alignment right.

I would also replace the rudder post seal while the post is out of the boat! All these parts are relatively cheap... but the labor is ferocious, and the boat needs to be hauled and stored on the hard for the work.

While the boat is hauled... zincs and bottom paint as needed.

Performing all the above while things are already apart will save you time, money and grief in the future.

Fun huhh? Its just money.

[scottsontherocks]

I found a poor man’s cutlass remover that looks simple enough to make. https://youtu.be/LtJWGoEW708
There’s also a post on Facebook “Albin Boat Owners” that goes into more detail. Another owner indicated that there are two of them which surprised me too.

[Nancy]

Barry, yes, totally agree with you re: limited vs small production runs.

Strut may be the wrong term on my part. There is a housing bolted to the back of our keel that contains the cutless bearing. The procedure you describe for replacing the cutless sounds the same as what was involved on our 28TE. We dropped the rudder and pulled the shaft a couple of times on that boat for various reasons.

Only thing I'd add to your great explanation is that the engine alignment has to be checked when the boat is back in the water.

rudder & prop-1-04.17.24-1220.jpg

[scottsontherocks]

If that shaft tube housing could unbolt and come out, then you could take it to a bench and press out the cutlass. Wouldn’t that be nice…but I suspect it is well sealed, glassed in and not meant to be removed unless absolutely necessary.

When removing the rudder, there is supposed to be a bottom bushing that the rudder shaft sets in or on. I suppose it is copper. Is this easily obtained if needed?

[BarryG]

Hi All,
Yes I just watched that video. This job is absolutely do-able. It is a lot of work and it seems this gentleman took the better part of a week to get it out.

Just a couple of comments;
#1- Yes, there are one or two set screws on either side of the stern tube fixture which are meant to keep the cutlass from moving in or out. They do not go far into the bronze shell of the cutlass bearing, just enough to keep it from moving forward or backwards. I did forget to mention that.

#2- on our boats, access to that bilge area where the shaft goes out to the keel is likely to be a real dog to get at as it is underneath the engine.

#3- I don't know if I would be brave enough to unbolt that external stern tube fixture... although at the ages of our boats, resealing it wouldn't be the worst idea.

#4- Yes, lots of times, due to the age of the cutlass they are very difficult to remove. And yes, some techs epoxy them into the stern tube. i have seen the cutlass bearings cut... just enough to cut the tube of the cutlass bearing along its entire length, with a saw but not into the fixture itself. Some even use a powered Skill Saw to make the cut... CAREFULLY! The width of the saw blade is called the Kerf. Cutting would allow just enough pressure relief of the cutlass tube to allow enough shrinkage of the cutlass tube diameter to make removal easier.

#5- Just a recap of how the cutlass bearing is constructed and how it works. The Stern tube or Shaft tube is a fiberglass pipe which is molded into the hull at the time of layup. It is bigger than the prop shaft and open on both ends. On our boats and all boats where the prop shaft exits a keel there is a stern fixture which is meant to accept the cutlass bearing. The replaceable cutlass bearing is a marine grade bronze with a hard rubber material bonded the the inside. The rubber has grooves in it to allow water to flow through it, which lubricates the "steel" prop shaft. Think like a rifle barrel but the grooves are not circular, just strait. (I say steel but its not really steel, its a steel compound engineered to resist salt water corrosion and the torque of the engine.) The water flowing through the cutlass flows from front to back and exits the cutlass at the rear, into the sea. so where does that water come from? At the forward end of the shaft tube, the prop shaft goes through the dripless shaft seal. You have likely noticed a small water supply line going to the shaft seal. The water pressure comes from the engine raw water pump as the raw water circulates through the cooling
system. That water has two functions. The first is to cool and lubricate the "dripless seal" and the second as it flows down the Shaft Tube to the cutlass and through the cutlass on the way out, is to lubricate the shaft and cutlass. On boats with external struts (which are fully submerged) the water simply flows into the forward end of the cutlass and through and out the back end of the cutlass. Again to lubricate the shaft as it turns in the cutlass.
As you can image, a prop shaft turning through a snug fitting rubber cutlass bearing would generate a ton of heat. Therefore water cooling and lubrication.

#6- Steve, that bottom bushing for the lower rudder support is not copper but likely some kind of bronze. I don't know. Copper is way too reactive in salt (or any) water.

#7- Nancy... ohh yes. The coupling alignment is usually done initially while on the hard and again when the boat is in the water. You would be surprised at the amount a boat changes shape when on blocks and stands compared to sitting naturally in the water. The fore and aft bending is called Hogging.
Side to side bending is called Twist.

Steve, please keep us updated on the progress of your repair!

Cheers

[scottsontherocks]

Thanks….Our boat will be pulled in the spring and I’ll see how far I can get to help offset some of the labor expense. I’m trying to prepare as best I can to minimize time on the hard and line up prop tuning among other things mentioned. I have a Norscot dripless shaft seal and a rebuild kit is on the list too.

In order for the rudder to slide out I think I’ll need to have it blocked up off the ground more than normal like what Nancy showed. 2ft is a guess but I could measure if this weather ever cooperates. I’m getting tired of this bitter cold…

[BarryG]

Steve,
yes, try to get an accurate measurement from the bottom of the rudder to the top of the shaft. Maybe add 6 inches...?
I'm in Maine and we have had bitter weather almost constantly since the beginning of December. I'm tired of it. If it weren't for our kids we certainly wouldn't be here. It makes me feel better to drive and hour + north, to go visit the boat. Having work done in a heated shed at Hodgdon Yacht Services.
Stay Warm!