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Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Albin's "power cruisers"
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Fredstraw1
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Home Port: Campbell River

Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by Fredstraw1 »

Recently I have come across a Perkins 4.107 that is very similar in size and wieght to the md17c that was origionally in the boat. The width is the same, lenght about 4" longer but it is about 10" taller. Bonus is that it is mated to a Borg Warner 2:1 and shaft rotation is counterclockwise... the same as md17c. Anyone hear of this engine in a 25?
WillieC
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Re: Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by WillieC »

How tall is it? Plan on serious mods to the cover. Does this engine have raw water cooled exhaust manifold? Can you get a replacement manifold if so? Have the main seals been upgraded to teflon?

Don't get me wrong. The Perkins are solid engines. But there is a fair bit of work involved in pulling the engine only to replace it with another old engine. I know, I have done this, though not to Perkins. And I am mostly happy with the results. Don't forget to look hard at the entire exhaust system to prevent engine flooding. Most of us have simply been lucky with the stock set up.

The 4" longer issue may well be the deal breaker, without modifying the engine pan and maybe the bulkhead fore of the engine. Measure twice, etc.

I know the price of new is a bit mind numbing, but a modern tier 3 compliant documented engine that comes with some kind of warranty and all new electrics plus transmission that belongs to your hull (oh it doesn't include the correct prop)...and the noise...

We are pondering these same questions, so I feel your pain.

And 50 HP is overkill for either hull. I like untaxed engines as much as the next guy, but these engines are meant to be run, not idled.
Fredstraw1
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Re: Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by Fredstraw1 »

Hello WillieC. Are you looking at repowering?
WillieC
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Re: Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by WillieC »

Not immediately. Looking at all kinds of possibilities, all first world issues. Nothing pressing.

There is a lot you can do with the MD17C still in the boat. Painting might be among the foulest simply because you are somewhat enclosed. I was able to overhaul in my heated (wood stove) shop. Then I tweaked it (top end) in the boat twice until I got it right.

The big deal with ALL boat engines is ongoing maintenance. We have looked at several potential upgrades and find dismal service and obvious imminent looming failures. At top dollar. One fellow was informed when he bought his boat that his heat exchanger needed replacement. So he grumbled about the then $300 cost and brags about his new 11YO exchanger that he hasn't touched since. Same with raw water pump.

Knowing what I now know, I might have installed a brand new engine ten years ago. Trouble is, had I done that, I wouldn't know a tenth of what I have learned in those ten years. The old engines are reliable, easy to service, though parts are expensive, and you'll want to provide your own labor with its expensive learning curve, unless you are from the old country and can swear in two or three tongues. Experience counts.

I find I am looking for the boat I have sitting in my driveway on its own trailer almost ready to launch. A couple more square feet and a few more creature comforts may not be worth it.

I have lots of advice on the VP. Some is worthwhile. Happy to chat.
Dieselram94
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Re: Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by Dieselram94 »

I have a Perkins 4.108 in my Albin 25 deluxe. It was installed in 1993 and runs perfect. I know the 4.107 is very similar. It fits in the stock housing with no modifications…but it’s tight. Whoever installed it originally never centered the motor in the boat so it caused the shaft and stuffing box to need to be replaced. I have since replaced the shaft, stuffing box, cutless bearing and aligned the shaft to the motor. It took a lot of effort to get the mounts to allow the motor to shift sideways about 3/4”!!! However it ran 2000+ hours tgat way before I got it. Fifty hp is overkill, but I don’t see it as a bad thing at all. That being said, I am very seriously thinking about repowering with a new beta. However I like having all new mechanicals and NO EMMISIONS. I’m approaching this boat project with the mindset that I don’t care how much I spend on it. The wife however doesn’t see it that way! Lol
Now, these are very good engines (other than the rear main seal issue!) and I’m a very good mechanic (backwoods certified!) but I really like brand new stuff. I’m guessing that borg Warner will not fit as it will interfere with the engine tray. I considered swapping my hurth 250 transmission for a b/w I had here but it was obvious it wasn’t going to fit. The Hurth 250 is still overkill anyways. Whatever you install for an engine, I would strongly suggest you swap the shaft and related parts for standard size parts. Mine is and it’s awesome being able to stop in at the local Hamilton marine and get things like a cutless bearing off the shelf. Trans Atlantic diesel has lots of parts for the old Perkins like the water cooled exhaust manifold. That’s where my new stainless one came from.
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WillieC
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Re: Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by WillieC »

Stock cutlass bearing, SAE shaft and taper, prop off the shelf. Couldn't agree more. (Need more details on the cutlass. How did you do that? Is the rubber sleeve salvaged from the stock cutlass? Did you have to machine it?)

I asked a boat guy in Juneau what the competition is for Beta. Maybe Cummins? But not for our A25s.
I agree the 107/108 is a very good engine, but Tier 3 they are not. No small consideration. And a new transmission? All new everything? I may go there yet so I get some enjoyment out of it and THEN sell it at top dollar in a few years.

One question all you Beta folks. What is the oil pan made of? A real casting or a thin tin automotive pan?
Burton
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Re: Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by Burton »

If re-sale in the future is a consideration, a repower with a Beta might be justified. The interior of your boat (pics on FB) is so beautiful that your boat would be a top dollar Albin 25. With the Perkins rebuild….not so. Say you put a thousand hours on a Beta— they are good for about ten thousand… the boat is then more like buying a Ranger level boat for cheap, compared to forty grand for a used Ranger. Just thinking.
Dieselram94
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Re: Ongoing saga repower A25...perkins?

Post by Dieselram94 »

WillieC wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 10:53 pm Stock cutlass bearing, SAE shaft and taper, prop off the shelf. Couldn't agree more. (Need more details on the cutlass. How did you do that? Is the rubber sleeve salvaged from the stock cutlass? Did you have to machine it?)

I asked a boat guy in Juneau what the competition is for Beta. Maybe Cummins? But not for our A25s.
I agree the 107/108 is a very good engine, but Tier 3 they are not. No small consideration. And a new transmission? All new everything? I may go there yet so I get some enjoyment out of it and THEN sell it at top dollar in a few years.

One question all you Beta folks. What is the oil pan made of? A real casting or a thin tin automotive pan?

Sorry for taking so long to reply.
This is the stock cutless “holder” with rubber sleeve installed it has been machined out inside to accept a standard size cutless that accommodates a 1.25” standard shaft.
Also installed but not in the picture is four stainless set screws in the holes that you see near the end by the rubber sleeve.

This is the cutlass bearing I used…
https://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/cut ... aring-bind
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