Albin 27 - Mast Thread

[JT48348]

This is the Albin 27 Mast Thread, where I pontificate about my plans to add a mast to the Albin 27 FC.

The Albin 25 came as a straight motor vessel or with a 25' mast and boom for "motorsailing." I gather there was a compression post/dinette table combo if you used the sail rig. Much has been said about the sailing characteristics of the Albin 25 and whether it was worth the effort or not. So I heartily understand there could be questions about making the Albin 27 FC the same. The Albin 27 FC came as a straight motor vessel. What I propose is something a little different.

Taking a page from the "The Troller Yacht Book" by George Buehler, Chpt 4, I intend to make my Albin 27 FC not a motorsailer, but an auxiliary sailer. George Buehler defines an auxiliary sailer as a motor yacht that carries a mast and thereby sail, where the sail is used as an auxiliary. A motorsailer sails first, motors second. A auxiliary sailer, motors first, and sails second. It's not designed to go to weather, and in fact will perform poorly as such. But running with the wind, or reaching to within 90 degrees, a very small mainsail and a nice rollerfurling headsail can steady the boat and provide 1-2 extra knots of speed with ease. I have a multipage document in *pdf format that explains; if you're interested pm me for details.

The basic arguments for a sail auxiliary:
-provides an "backup" to the engine in certain situations
-adds speed when motoring in certain situations
-the mast & boom allow for hoisting a dingy, etc, on deck
-steadying sail in certain situations

I have two sail plans I am exploring:
-Mast on the hardtop, closer aft to the center of balance
-mast behind the fwd hatch, similar to the A25

An alternative would be the mast far, just before the aft cabin, on the aft cabin, which really doesn't seem practical since I intend to extend the hardtop to cover the center cockpit and part of the aft cabin.

Now this is not for everyone, and remember it's not designed to make the Albin 27 FC a sailboat. The modifications I am proposing, in the manner in which I intend to do the install would not and should not be used if you intend to use the Albin 27 as a traditional sailboat and beat to weather. But if you want to motor, and roll a headsail and breeze along....give it some consideration.

[JT48348]

So I researched far and wide, looking at all manner of Albin 25's, reading the A25 handbook and trying to figure what mast and how long does it need to be for an Albin 27. The Albin 25 motorsailer I think uses a 25' mast. I consulted several trawler forums to see what "masts" they were using. I searched for several weeks for a used mast and rigging that would serve several purposes in my install:

-needs to be able to be stepped and unstepped with ease by 1 person (so it can't be a beast)
-needs roller furling on the headstay
-when not stepped, needs to fit on the hardtop and not over reach the boat
-needs to be under 25' length, stiff, yet not too heavy
-needs a generous length boom to facilitate raising a dink onto the deck or hardtop

In my area, there's always a mast and boom for sale. Some are $25. Some are $500. If you're searching for a used mast and boom, pay particular attention to whats there---and what's not there. Many rigs are incomplete or parting out, and just one fitting--a turnbuckle, a gooseneck, whatever can cost you $30-50. No turnbuckles means $30x4 or 6 or 8! It can be added cost if you don't think ahead. Check the wire rigging (the shrouds and stays) and any lines included.

I located a mast and boom from a 22' Catalina sailboat on the cheap. This was not my first choice, but I think was a good option given the deal. One advantage of Catalina 22's is there are parts still available. I wished for a slightly large mast, with a larger cross section, probably oval shape. I wanted a 10' boom. What I got in the Catalina 22 mast was an almost round mast, medium walled, and decent in structure. It was light, about 40-60lbs at 25' long. The boom is light and stiff, and 8'. Time will tell if I needed a more robust mast & boom, but I kinda figure its not how big it is, but how you use it . Plus this mast and boom were painted. All rigging complete with all turnbuckles and stainless spreaders. And ...wait for it...it came with a CDI furler and foils. Now you can debate furlers, and I personally previously used Profurl, but a deal is a deal. I got a 25' painted mast and 8' boom, all rigging and turnbuckles, chainplates, and a CDI furler. SOLD.

Now how do you get a 25' mast home on the top of an SUV? You cut 5' feet off the mast. Two feet off the top and three feet off the bottom. If I had thought about it, I would have left more on the bottom to raise the mainsail gate. Duh..

Because my Albin 27 auxiliary sailer doesn't need a power rig, or a rig that even approaches the Albin 25 motorsailer, it can be shorter. Easier to raise and lower, stiffer, and proportionally, it looks like George Beuhlers troller yacht configuration. Approximately 2 x the beam of the boat--the mast will be.

This is what it looks like on the vehicle. Use rachet straps to keep it in place and a some rope to center it on the vehicle. Here's some pics of the gear. On close inspection, very complete, and the wire and fittings are in great shape, almost new. An added bonus was everything was boxed and labeled by the owner and stowed away nice inside.

I'm missing three things: running rigging (which I always pick my own anyway), a gooseneck for the boom, and a mast step tabernacle (which I plan to have fabricated from stainless so it meets certain functions).

[JT48348]

Photos of the mast, I had to stand it up there to see what it might look like. The trees got in the way, but you can get the idea. I am leaning towards putting it behind the forward hatch. I think it will easiest to build the mast step there and reinforce the deck.

My only real concern now is the very anemic mast. Its just seems I don't know... very tiny? It's a real trade off being able to step it solo. It was very easy to move around and will be no problem to step an unstep, but it seems slightly undersized. Maybe when its rigged it won't look like so pathetic?

Here's a few links I found on the basics of how to build the mast step and avoid a compression post.
http://www.dreamaway.net/mizzen_step_repair.html

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f55 ... 76910.html

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchan ... nforcement

[Jay Knoll]

If the geometry works out I think stepping it just aft of the foreword cabin hatch is a great idea. You can handle things better from the cabin top rather than having to climb up onto the hard top. The main bulkhead will give you some compression support and if you move the bulkhead forward as you were considering in the head remodel thread you'll have great support.

Don't forget wiring for the masthead light I'm not sure where you'd fall under colregs but I guess you'd be considerd a sailboat

Jay

[JT48348]

Interesting. This is what the Albin 25 manual says about sailing. Sounds like a page out of the Troller Yacht book. I also find it interesting thats there no mention of the compression post.

"The commercial fishermen have been using a steadying sail in all weather for years.
To this end a suitable rig for the Albin 25 has been requested by many owners. The
reasons being to give the boat easier movements in a seaway, to be able to sail with
the engine shut off when the wind is fair and to have a certain degree of safety if the
engine should fail (plastic bags, lines, nets in propeller). The rig that has been designed
and tested for the Albin 25 does not make the boat into a real motorsailor
(that is a boat which is as good a sailboat as a motorboat). The boat remains a motorboat
with sails. This is because the keel area is too small to stop drift when sailing
or beating to windward. Because of this a fairly small sail area has been chosen, but
much more than steading sails and large enough to give fair sailing and increased
safety. The stability of the boat would allow a lot more sail - see the stability curve.
The rig has been dimensioned to take hard weather but the rudder area is too small
to allow a lot of sail in fresh winds and give safe manoeuvring'at the same time. The
sailing performance is good enough for you to beat against the wind in normal h n d i -
tions. You can sail around 70 degrees from the wind. But to turn through the eye of
the wind is almost impossible. Instead it is necessary to turn with the wind -a controlled
gybe. With the wind from the side or from astern the boat performs fairly well.
In a ten knot wind the speed is around 4 knots and in a fresher wind she sails still
faster. On long cruises, especially in open water, the sails certainly add safety because
they give the possibility if need be to maintain a course and avoid drifting down
onto a lee shore."


And here it talks about installing mast on an A25. No mention of a compression post. Not sure what a sompression knee would be.

"Fitting the rigging details:
Sheet tracks and fittings for shrouds, stays and main sheet need holes according tothe drawing (fig. 37). Fittings through foredeck and aft cabin top must be made watertight with elastic putty. When nuts have been tightened (do not forget washers) lock them through deforming the threads with a chisel or something similar.
At the mast step the deck has to be strengthened to be able to stand up to the pressure.
Bore 6 holes according to the drawing (diametre 3/4''- l'') through the outer
layer of the deck. Remove the Divinycell (core material) in and around the holes and
, fill with a two-part polyester putty to get a pressure-proof filling.
Between the top wooden chock and the deck an elastic filler should be used. The
strengthening knee below the deck is fastened with two bolts through the glassfibre
"bulkhead" with a mahogany "washer" on the outside.... "

[Halcyon]

My father used to have a Grand Banks 42. He had a steading sail made to fit the mast and boom. We used it in may different conditions and all it seemed to do was make noise. No increase in speed and no appreciable improvement in the ride. The GB 42 is a hard chined boat though....

[sail149]

From old thread
JT
Have you considered a mast mounted well aft and use a jib / genoa type sail going forward.
A lot easier to mount and find support for the mast and out of the way of a hardtop?
Maybe have a tabernacle on the back of the hardtop and the mast could fold down forwards on the hard top when not in use? That way you could have maybe a 25' mast that would stay within the length of the hull!
That would be a tall mast!
Warren

[JT48348]

Warren: the only problem with mounting the mast well aft is it ruins the opportunity to use the mast for the purpose of using it as a hoist, like to raise a dingy on the hardtop. Also, I think it presents a problem with the jib being too big. I really want to be able to raise a dingy on the hardtop if need be.

Are you saying the mast is too tall, if its fwd-- or too tall, no matter where it is?

I'm inclined to agree. Right now its 20'. I feel like it could maybe go 15-18' just fwd of the pilot house. That would still allow a big head sail. What I cant get over is the A25 has a 25' mast. That's huge.

[DesertAlbin736]

JT48348, the drawing of the mast setup for the Albin 25 is exactly what I have already installed on my '71 Albin 25 La Dolce Vita, including the "strengthening knee" just like shown in the drawing. Previous owners had never used the mast that came with it and neither have I since we bought the boat this past March. Previous owners had also installed a bowsprit, so I'll have to look again and see what's there for a forestay chainplate. So I guess that answers my questions about having a mast with no compression post, since most later A25's with masts step the mast about 2 ft forward of the windshield and have compression posts in the cabin. Right now my mast and standing rigging is stored on sawhorses on the side of my house, and included in the "packaqe" are a mainsail, genoa, Furlex furler, and an asym gennaker. Still a bit nervous about the mast step being so close to the windshield in case of a slip while stepping the mast and breaking the windshield, which would obviously be tough to fix or find a replacement.

Few reasons for not installing the mast as yet: 1) we store the boat on the trailer in a yard in town, so mast would have to be raised and lowered each time we went boating; 2) is it really worth using the mast if all you can get is 4 knots speed and can't point higher than 70 deg off the wind? and 3)it's too damn hot down here in Phoenix until the weather cools off (still 100 degrees a week before the end of September) to mess with a mast, and 4) still would have to figure a good way to raise the mast. It would have to be raised fore to aft because of the windshield, but the boom and mainsheet could used as a 'gin pole', so I'd have to come up with some sort of mast crutch to set in the bed of my pickup. Will think about it and maybe experiment after the weather cools off.

I've been sailing various trailerable sailboats since 1998 and our last boat prior to the Albin was a Catalina 25. We specifically looked for an Albin for sailboat like fuel economy (besides Albins are just cool boats) without the need for mast raising, which is a real chore on a 25 footer. I'm not sure my mast is 25 ft, seems more like 22 ft. It's not particularly easy to get to to measure right now, but it seems shorter than 25 ft. Here's a picture we took while bringing the boat down from Idaho when we first bought it, when the gold colored mast was stowed on the trailer frame. You can see the mast is a few feet shorter than the boat and closer to being about what the waterline length is.

[JT48348]

Thats good to know. Makes me want to cut my mast down to 15-18'.

[sail149]

Hi JT
I found my pictures of a mast on a A27, some are only thumb size, boat name is Gem.
The bots was for sale in Iowa a couple of years ago. I don't have the listing only the photos.
It was on yachtworld.
Not exactly the setup you you were thinking of but interesting non the less.
Maybe the new owner is a member of this or the Yahoo group.
Your Catalina mast sounds like a good deal.
Warren

[sail149]

Desertalbin736 and JT
Around here to raise a mast in a tabernacle we don't Waste time with a gin pole etc just run a long line from top of mast to in front of your tow vehicle and have a friend or dog walker! hold the line and pull or lower as reqd. When mast is close to deck you will have to hold it from on board as the angle is too shallow or use a crutch made from a ladder to hold it partway up. Shrouds need to be aft of the mast.....
Works on all sorts of boat up to 30'+ masts
Warren

[JT48348]

Thanks Warren! That looks great. For me the only problem is I want a hardtop, so the mast behind the helm station would probably get in the way. I really like the way it looks and imagine it would be very balanced. If anyone wants the full size photos from the original listing, I was able to find it here

With my head removed, I can easily reinforce a mast step behind the fwd hatch. So for now I'm putting my mast on the forward cabin

[JT48348]

Line drawing of the proposed mast placement and shrouds.

albin 27 hull shape and layoutv3.jpg

With the remodeling of the head and forward cabin I think I've solved the issue of mast compression as suggested by relocating the head bulkheads down below. I've sourced some nice second hand winches for the mast and cockpit. I'm currently looking into how and where to place the fore/back stay and various chainplates. The chainplates I have now came with the mast and basically eye bolts for the Cataline 22. Robust enough, but not very deep and may present a problem with the thicker Albin 27 decking. I may put the chainplates into the forward cabin top, which will keep the side decks clear.

Also have to address the stemhead fitting, where the forestay will attach. The bowsprit/anchor platform project is coming along. But the platform is very crowed now aft with the new anchor windlass and hawspipe. Most of the aft end of the bowsprit, which overlays the deck, is covered by these items. The windlass bolts through the deck with giant 5/8" stainless bolts. So the platform is compeltely secured to the deck.

However, if I mount the steamhead fitting aft, there's no room on the platform. If I mount it just forward of the windlass, there's no way to bolt to deck. I have considered mounting the steamhead well foward near the end of the bowsprit. This would give and extra 24" distance from the mast, but it would require a bobstay under the platform, which I'd have to fabricate. I'm not really a fan of mounting stays to bowsprits. And there may be an issue with the bowpulpit handing up the rollerfurling sail. Idk, I will probably have to mock assemble everything on the foredeck to see what bumps into what.

Some photos from the web on the idea of a bobstay
http://www.oocities.org/rainbow_chaser. ... sprit.html

[don123]

I think the stem fitting could be a conventional stainless tang, maybe 3/4 wide, 3/6th thick and a foot long or so - 3 bolts through the very front of the bow (above the bow eye fitting) with a backing plate, nuts and washers inside the anchor locker and the tang coming up through the center of your bow pulpit, bent aft to the correct angle - Quick, simple and indestructible

For the backstay, you could use a split fitting and through bolt a pair of tangs near the corners of the aft cabin roof, 30 to 36 inches or so either side of the center window - Looking at your drawing, the forward angle there is about correct. Bring the two stays together into a triangular fitting 5 or 6 feet above the cabin top. The cabin roof there is cored, but if you add a backing plate on the inside with 3 bolts for each tang, it should support things well enough, given that your mast is as small as it is

If it were mine the shrouds would be through bolted to the hull sides on the inside, coming up through the toe rail - More difficult to walk around, but grabbing the shroud and stepping around them as you go forward wouldn't be a big issue, IMO. The wider and more secure the shrouds, the better as they will see the lions share of the stresses when underway

As small as your jib is going to be, I'd consider a hank on sail, just to keep things simple and keep the windage down when at anchor. A small 'handkerchief' anchor riding sail hoisted on the backstay would be one really big advantage of an A27 with a mast set-up I think - That and having a stick to mount antennas on

Don