A25 trailer mods for picking up my new boat sight unseen

[nebulatech]

Greetings all!

This is my first post; I didn't post in the intro forum because technically, I'm not an owner yet. I would like to first thank everyone in advance for their time and the benefit of their knowledge and willingness to share!

After Christmas, I'm heading to pick up my new Albin 25 FC, which is quite run-down. It's a total restoration project. I'm traveling 440 miles to pick the boat up. I bought a trailer (picture below) which previously towed a 24' Robalo center cockpit. It is a 30' long trailer rated for 8500 lbs. Dual axle with surge brakes. From my research, an Albin 25's dry weight is about 3,500 lbs, and loaded for cruising is about 6,000 lbs. The winch on the trailer is rated for 2500lbs, which seems small to me. The boat does not have a working engine, so winching it onto the trailer is essential. Fortunately, the trailer is long, so I should be able to get the boat pretty far on before pulling it out.

Can anyone comment on the appropriate rated load for the winch?

My primary concern is the trailer's configuration is inappropriate for the hull shape of the A25. I have searched all of the A25 subsection of the forum, going back years, to find what info I could on trailers. I found two helpful diagrams showing both a bunk and a roller configuration with measurements, but both of those trailers were 24' long trailers. One was rollers, and the other was bunks. I have read that the consensus is rollers are preferred, but I have less than two weeks to get the trailer ready. Once I own the boat and have it in my yard, I can modify the trailer with rollers. To get her home, I believe I will have to rely on the bunks.

Below I am adding a diagram I made of the trailer. The trailer currently doesn't have keel rollers, but I plan to install 10" keel rollers on the last 4 cross members. The forward set of bunks should suffice for keeping the keel off the forward cross members. The rear bunks are about 5 feet apart, and the tops of them are only 15.5" above the axle. Once I add a bow roller, the gap will be shorter, 14.5" at best. I'm concerned that the rear bunks aren't high enough and that the boat will list to one side or the other on the trailer and put undue weight on the keel.

Absent any advice, my plan would be to slip the boat onto the trailer and pull it part-way out. If it is not resting on the bunks, I can put it back in the water and lash some pre-carpeted 2x4's to build up the bunk height. There's no way I will have time at the public boat landing to try and break free any hardware and adjust the bunks. I plan to use 4 ratchet straps to hold the boat in place for the initial trailering back home.

If anyone has advice on the bunk heights, it is greatly appreciated. I would hate to damage this classic on its way to my shop. I have enough work ahead of me in its current state.

Drawing:


Trailer:

[honza]

Not an easy job. It will depend, how steep is the ramp and if it is salt water. On average sloping ramp in deep fresh water you can back-up in the water far enough, that you do not need rollers for the keel at all. Rollers are very helpful for aft side support. In shallow water the (non de luxe) boat bow actually rides over the rollers up and down, but that is something to consider later.
You will need a long strait (8 in. wide?, carpeted?) bunk board in the middle of the trailer for the strait length of the keel. The boat has been designed to rest on the keel. Side supports (I use 4 sets of 8 wobble rollers plus 2 carpeted blocks) serve to keep the boat upright only. To figure their location and elevation you may want to go to some other A25 of the same hull shape as yours (not all are the same) on the dry, preferably on a trailer a measure carefully. You also need to figure out where your boat will sit on the trailer to get enough gross weight of the rig on its tongue, preferably about 10%.
One more note about keel rollers. If you need any you need them for the bow of the boat. The mid section of the boat floats on all right due the slope of the ramp. In other words - the keel slopes very gently, the center bunk of the trailer is much steeper due the slope of the ramp. So, normally, you do not need to winch with serious force more than a couple of feet, unless the ramp is extremely shallow and flat - which would not be for your first time adventure recommended at all. This is not a very trailer friendly boat - think about it as trailering a keel sailboat. Good luck - you may need some of it

[nebulatech]

Hi Honza!

Thank you for your reply. You bring up issues I hadn't considered. It sounds like I might end up adding a (supported and carpeted) 2X8 instead of keel rollers for the rear cross members. The front has narrow bunks which were designed to cradle the bow portion of a center console keel. That might work fine for a gentle curve as you mentioned. It's good to know that the side supports are for stability, not load bearing. I have seen pictures of A25 trailers that had keel rollers instead of a solid bunk board for the keel. Can anyone weigh in on what they have?

I don't know the underwater profile, but I have seen on many models that the keel drops down to protect the prop. I'm currently looking for some measurements to find out how many feet forward from the stern the drop takes place. I'm in South Carolina, and I don't think there's any A25 members close enough for me to travel to in the days running up until Christmas. I don't know the exact model of this A25. It's hull number is in the 2700's.

Today I looked at may pictures of A25's on trailers, and those with bunks had curving bunks, whereas mine are straight solid 4x8 with a small 45 degree angle. Because I'm going sight unseen to buy a boat without a trailer, I'm not in the best position. In order to prepare, I was planning on making some tapered wooden wedges (carpeted) to tap in between the bunks and the hull to achieve the contour effect. I will drill holes through them to strap them to the bunks. I also plan to soak all of the ubolt nuts with penetrating oil and break them loose next week so I can adjust the bunks and bow roller position.

Regarding weight distribution, the current bow roller position should place the engine over the axles. Because the boat tapers in the bow, I suspect that the tongue weight will not be overbearing. I'm thinking I'm going to have to move the bow roller aft due to the drop in the keel by the prop. Doing so would offer the advantage of reduced tongue weight and allowing more trailer into the water at the ramp (which I can't find much info on). In my experience, the slope of the ramp sometimes changes based on the tide as well, at least where I live.

Thank you again for your time and advice!

[WillieC]

2700 makes it a DeLuxe for sure. I'm 15XX and they called it the Mark II before somebody decided it was fancy enough to be DeLuxe.

You do have your hands full with what you are attempting. My trailer has 4 2X6 bunks covered with a slick black plastic. I don't recommend this, but for as often as we haul, it works. One of my winter projects is installing an electric winch on the trailer. My current set up has a 2500 pound manual, two-speed, thank God, winch.

Your hull will have the slight recurve at the stern for improved water skiing. The problem with trailering, but it may just be my set-up, is that the hull is bulbous amidship. Thus my bunks curve slightly up toward the stern. Fun on and off. We need a steep ramp and high tide. I also use a three foot hitch extension. We have one roller all the way forward with the bunks nicely cradling the heaviest bulk of the hull.

Since you just need to get it home...make sure the trailer is roadworthy for starts and take a truckload of lumber and some plywood for gussets. The stern is not quite flat. Your front post looks exactly like the one we have....hmmm...make sure the boat has a bow eye! I am not sure they were all made with one. Plan on beefing it up with serious backing when you get it home. With good keel support and rear corner supports and the high front post your trailer has, with some additional support at the engine, you might make it. How far?

[DesertAlbin736]

It appears from your photos that the winch on the trailer is a Dutton Lainson DL2500, same as I have on my boat & works fine. Great winches that are still in production & this size is plenty capacity. As you know, it's 2 speed, "shifting gears" via switching the winch handle from one spindle to the other. Word of caution: that handle can shake loose & fall off on the road. I'm on handle #3 on mine from times I forgot to either tie off or remove the handle. Weight displacement wise, the full weight of the boat with gear is closer to 4,500 lbs. When we first got our boat in 2014 (we had to drive 850 miles from Phoenix, Arizona to American Falls, Idaho to get ours, also sight unseen). On the way back we put it on a truck scale & actual weight of boat + trailer alone disconnected from the truck was 6,058 lbs (I found the scale receipt a while back). And that was with a hard shell dink hanging off the stern. So the trailer you got should be more than adequate (ours has GVWR of 6,000 lbs). One of the most important things to check is the tires, specifically the age of those tires. If they're over 5 years old replace them. Even 4 years old is pushing it. You're definitely going to have to modify those bunks quite a bit.

Here's what the model winch we have looks like, & I'm guessing same as yours

DL2500 winch.jpg

Here's our trailer without the boat on it. Similar dimensions has yours, except with adjustable bunks, lowered in this case to pull it out from under the boat for a bottom job.

DSCN3611.JPG

Since the picture above was taken I had to have a lot of reinforcement work done on the trailer, "boxing" in the I beams at the angle. Your trailer doesn't have that issue of a sharp tapering angle which is better. Here's a more recent one with the boat on the trailer, at an Oregon invasive species inspection station on the road between Phoenix, AZ & Blaine, WA this past summer

20190613_134500.jpg

Another close up, noting the "belly" curvature of the hull, if not mistaken termed "deadrise".

DSCN3669.JPG

As with all these photos, if viewed on a desktop PC, click on the photo for a zoomed in view.

[coolchange]

I have a feeling I know your state since I got my 27 fc in Naniamo and the trailer from SoCal...they met in Bellingham for a ride to Portland. ( at the time I thought I had made the biggest mistake of the decade)
Good news was the guys running the sling were willing to help get the boat stable for the trip ...yes to the advice that you bring lots of blocking, lines, padding etc....I think a jack or two (hydraulic bottle jacks) to help with lifting to get supports under the right places. Not sure about the 25 but my set up is "float on"...I have never had to use the bow winch for more than snugging the last 6 inches...but that means the trailer has to be well under the surface...so this trailert has float on guides to keep the boat on the mid-line...you might want to have a helper to push/pull the stern while the driver eases out of the water.
Also, re ramp strategies..go early or late or on a bad weather day so you can reduce the tension of that circus...get stable no matter what then move up the ramp to make secure for the trip. Good luck...first time is the worst.

[DesertAlbin736]

...you might want to have a helper to push/pull the stern while the driver eases out of the water.

That is we have to do & and is an ongoing issue I've not yet been able to satisfactorily resolve. Problem with the 25, something you don't have with the 27, is it's like a sailboat with the stern tapering from max beam amidships to about 6 feet at the stern. Ideally there would be guides at the widest part, but the wheels are in the way there. At the ramp the back end of the trailer is submerged several feet lower in the water than the hull which tends to shift with the wind and/or current. The result is we have to get the lane next to the ramp dock (if there is one), walk the boat onto the trailer, snug the bow up with the winch, then I stand at the stern with the stern dock line and a boat hook in hand to steady the boat as the Admiral slowly drives up the ramp until it settles onto the bunks with the keel centered on the rollers. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 tries to get it right, or at least close enough for government work.

As for hull dimensions, maybe these drawings might help some. Once printed out at whatever size you want scale can be determined by considering LOA of 25 feet & beam at 8 ft 6 in.

Albin 25 lines1.JPG

Albin 25 plan.JPG

Coolchange, did you get your trailer from Pacific Trailers? A bit off topic, but of the cruising places you list in your signature, Columbia River & the Broughtons are the only places we haven't cruised. For SoCal, we've gone from Huntington Beach out to Catalina Island, circumnavigating the island while there. We're not expecting to go back up to the Pacific NW again for at least a few more years. Next year we hope to head east for an ambitious "looping" cruise as mapped below.

triangleloopmap.jpg

So nebulatech, congrats on getting your boat. It may be a project boat, hopefully not too far gone, but once restoration work is done the cruising world will be your oyster. If you plan to re-power I'd suggest going with either a Beta or a Yanmar. By the way, are you sure it's a 25 & not a 27? 25's are usually not designated "FC", but either plain "Albin 25" or "Albin 25 DeLuxe". Yanmars, at least from my experience, are much quieter running engines than the Volvo. I expect a Beta would also be a quieter engine. Anyway, you can trailer just about anywhere your free time and cruising budget allows without hassle of wide load permits. Many many places in your region to explore, the ICW, Chesapeake Bay, New England, coastal North Carolina, even Florida out to the Bahamas to name a few as long as you have sufficient free time. The 25 is not a big boat, but for two can be quite comfortable for extended cruising. Our record so far is 46 consecutive days afloat.

[Dieselram94]

I’ve been in a similar situation. This is how I handled it to get the boat home. I have keel rollers on every crossmember but the farthest aft one collapsed under the weight of the boat. I will be switching to a long pressure treated board for keel support. Float on only...

[WillieC]

"you might want to have a helper to push/pull the stern while the driver eases out of the water."

Now that's some good advice. What with the bulbous hull, deadrise, you need to get the boat away from the trailer...STEP AWAY FROM THE TRAILER! Otherwise, if you think just because you are floating, you are done...just pull the truck and trailer back up the ramp...

WRONG.

One time, the guilty parties will remain unnamed, I knew a case where they floated the boat, and tried driving away. Well, with the rising bunks toward the aft of the trailer, and the sloped ramp...pulling the truck out hung the trailer on the bulbous portion of the hull which raised the bow and lowered the stern all the way to whatever hard parts were "touching bottom".The whole mess dragged the boat UP the ramp with the truck driver assuming the unnamed Starfleet Commander had pulled the boat clear of the trailer. The Screaming Powerstroke Ford drowned out all the Concerned Suggestions from watchstanders, guilty and innocent.

Finally, understanding that there was some sort of issue by surveying the situation in the rear view mirrors, especially by observing the ridiculously upraised bow which was not getting any further from the truck, the driver of the pick-up stopped to assess the unfolding calamity. The only way to rectumfry the sich--ee-a-shun was to reverse course and back the whole screaming disaster down the ramp. (Did I mention Public Ramp?) The 2500 pound winch was not up to that task without some help from the water floating the stern of the boat. Yet another groove was etched into the concrete ramp...

With boat properly floated, the unnamed parties knew that the only way to accurately determine how much of the rudder, skeg, and keel were no longer part of the boat, was to properly put it back on the trailer and and haul it up to the Public Parking Area and have a look see.

The curb feeler, aka donut rudder zinc, was the only damage. Who knew that a sacrificial zinc would also give way to concrete when pressed? No. Other. Damage. I think this was precisely why the founding fathers nipped off the lower corner of the rudder, indicating that I was not the first to attempt this. I mean the unnamed persons.

[DesertAlbin736]

Yep, the boat needs to be floated off & pulled back clear of the trailer before taking the empty trailer back to the parking lot. These boats are amazingly sturdy. We grounded on sharp rocks in less than 2 feet of water in Tsehum Harbor near Sidney, BC last summer. Totally FUBAR situation. Our cruise mates had run out of fuel less than a mile from the marina dock, which was also the Canadian port of entry check-in dock, & we had towed them in & got them to the dock. While waiting for them to things get sorted out, check in, refuel, & getting a slip for the night we loitered/orbited in and around a nearby mooring field. Admiral had the con while I was distracted, busy texting our friends. She was watching what they were doing more than paying attention to the chartplotter and what was ahead. All of a sudden WHAM, DEAD STOP! Lucky for us it was coming off a low tide & rising (although being at high tide in the first place would have avoided the grounding altogether), so it wasn't too long before I was able to use the dinghy & outboard to pull us off as the water rose. Shutting down the main engine right off & not using it to try and back off likely saved us from prop damage. But the only other "damage" was a few scratches on the bottom paint & gelcoat dings on the keel.

[NickScheuer]

Here is a photo of our trailer sans boat. It appears to me that the bunks at the rear of your trailer are not high enough to reach the run of the hull with the keel resting on a roller right down by the aftermost cross member.
The aft end of the keel (skeg) on our boat rides aft of the last roller, so the idea expressed above for having a carpeted plank support the straight portion of the keel seems like a good thought. Such an arrangement would allow you to pull the boat and trailer at least partway up out of the water to see what sort of additional support will be needed to hold the hull upright.
Having several old auto tires on hand might prove useful as temporary supports between the hull and your existing side bunks.

[NickScheuer]

Our boat came to us on this 5-yr-old trailer; a compelling reason to consummate the deal. Another Albin I had looked at previously was much more of a restoration project (no engine) which would have to have been hauled home on absolute junk for a trailer.

[coolchange]

should be a pic of my 27fc trailer...to show the rear guides. These are about 1 1/4" SS tubes with UHMW boards (at height of rubrail)..this allows float on single handed. also, all of the bunks are adjustable and set up so that the boat can be "slinged" or is it "slung" ...even though I use ramps mostly.

PS the rear guides are easily adjusted and/or removed as they fit into square tube sockets bolted to frame...I remove when moving the trailer back and forth to storage

[dkirsop]

Not much to add to what has already been good advice.

The hull reaches widest girth near the front of the engine and then tapers aft and upwards towards the stern as the keel deepens. This is why the bunks must be flexible and curve upwards near the stern. The boat needs to be launched and retrieved in water sufficiently deep that it can clear the uppermost ends of the bunks.

Ideally the engine should sit centred over the trailer wheels to properly distribute weight between the wheels and the tongue. There must be enough weight on the tongue to prevent the trailer from slewing side to side when being towed.

Finally, I found 10” too narrow when it came to centering the keel. I strongly recommend 12”. It doesn’t cost that much more and will provide support when alignment is slightly off. My keel is supported on six rollers consisting of three pairs on tilting brackets. This allows the rearmost roller to support a portion of the keel where it begins to curve to accommodate the skeg.

[nebulatech]

Many many greatful thank-you's to honza, WillieC, DesertAlbin736, coolchange, Dieselram94, NickScheuer and dkirsop!

It looks like my intial bring-home strategy will resemble Dieselram94's picture.

"There must be enough weight on the tongue to prevent the trailer from slewing side to side when being towed."
THIS - I was going to move the bow roller aft, but I think I will do some careful measuring first to make sure the engine is lined up between both axles.

The loft line drawing provided by DesertAlbin736 will help me achieve this. I believe I will be going up the weekend after Christmas. I've ordered 3" U bolts and I will get a 10' 2x12 to bold down the middle. I will reinforce under it with some 2x4's between the cross members. I'm going to use some of the spare carpet I have in the attic because I have it in stock and I believe it will make for easier sliding.

It's going to be an adventure. The trailer is only two years old and the tires and brakes are great. At least I have that in my favor. While I've skippered boats much larger, this will be my largest tow. I've only pulled a 21' center console before this. I'll be sure to post pictures!

@DesertAlbin736 - The boat currently has a 3 cylinder Yanmar which apparently runs but not under load.

Thank you all again!

EDIT:
I forgot to mention:
I will be taking a hydraulic jack, electric saw, drill and impact driver so I can lift the boat a little. The jack was a good idea.

@DesertAlbin736 - It's a 25. Its on the nameplate. Please forgive my erroneous insertion of FC. I have seen a picture or two of an Albin 25 without the aft cabin, so I was trying to distinguish this one as having the aft cabin. I've wanted one of these for years, since I crewed on a trip up the ICW and saw a meet-up of several Albins (not sure if they were 25, 27 or a mix) in Beaufort, NC. It's about the smallest size boat for my needs, and about the largest I can tow. I have two young children. I'm hoping to give them some great memories.