First splash, first (almost) sinking

[kerrye]

Put the A25 in the water for the first time today at Chatfield reservoir. Launching was easy and we tied up at the end of the launch dock to assure that the main engine and outboard were running fine. Both started and ran fine although I noticed the exhaust port seemed to underwater. (hard to see since it's under the swim platform) But exhaust and water were spitting out. Let it run for about 15 minutes and then we shoved off. Motored out into the lake at about 1200 rpms and things seemed to be going quite smoothly. I decided to open it up to increase the speed. The rpm's increased for a couple of seconds and then the engine shut off abruptly. A second or two later there was a huge bang under the floorboards. I decided to investigate that before attempting to restart the engine and pull up the back floorboard. Water was gushing in. The 'muffler' had ruptured and water was pouring in thru the exhaust hose. I told my crew to man the gusher bilge pump and I dropped the outboard down and started it, heading the boat back to the ramp as quickly as possible. I couldn't think of any immediate way of plugging the exhaust pipe but as we neared the ramp I thought I could jam a rag in the hose. As soon as I stopped the outboard I dropped the swim ladder and jammed a towel into the exhaust outlet. It stopped most of the flow but in that about 1/3 of a mile back to the ramp we had taken on enough water to fill the front cabin with about 18 inches of water even with the crew manning the bilge pump. Quickly got the truck and trailer and pulled it out of the water.
I've done some preliminary diagnosis. I'm not sure how that rubber 'muffler' is supposed to work but I cut it out and it has a series of rubber fingers aimed towards the outlet end. I think the exhaust hose from the engine was far too long as it was pushed into the muffler almost t the outlet end, and right into those rubber fingers which appeared to be blocking the flow of exhaust out towards the stern. It must have pressured the 'football' way more than it was ever intended to be and it just blew out. The whole forward end of the football was blown open. The whole system seems like a dicey design to me. The outlet is too low and any breech in the exhaust hose will sink the boat in minutes. So now I have to figure out what to do with the system. I don't know if knew 'football mufflers' are available and I don't think I want to just repeat the original design and face the same fate in the future. I'm open to suggestions.

[smacksman]

Well done for a quick response and clear head to overcome the trauma.
I was always consious of the fact that Free State had a fibreglass tube exhaust from the engine room aft.
As fibreglass burns quite nicely and engine exhaust is hot it didn't seem like a good combination.
I would prefer to see new exhaust hose all the way to the transom with maybe a loop above waterline in the engine room
Roger

[kerrye]

Exploded Elastomuffler

[kerrye]

The other thought I had regarding the situation is this: The person I bought the boat from had not really used it. He bought it from someone who had had the new engine installed. (It has less than 200 hrs on it). They must have experienced problems with the engine similar to what I did since it shut down so abruptly when I opened up the throttle. It seems evident that a new exhaust hose was installed with the new engine and installed incorrectly. I can't see how excessive back pressure would not have been stopping the engine at high throttle settings right from the get go.

[kerrye]

Well done for a quick response and clear head to overcome the trauma.
I was always consious of the fact that Free State had a fibreglass tube exhaust from the engine room aft.
As fibreglass burns quite nicely and engine exhaust is hot it didn't seem like a good combination.
I would prefer to see new exhaust hose all the way to the transom with maybe a loop above waterline in the engine room
Roger

The problem with the A25 is that there's no way to get a loop above the waterline in the engine compartment. Is it acceptable to put a loop right at the transom? I did see pictures of an A25 for sale on which the exhaust outlet had been raised about a foot but it made one of the aft berths unuseable.

[WillieC]

Kerry, WOW! So sorry for your first splash of the season, but what good action on your part. I have read a lot of stuff on the position of the outlet, right at waterline and lift mufflers and sloping down to exit and waterlogged engines and bent pushrods and the A25 seems to make this all but inevitable, especially in a following sea. I've seen the pictures, i've seen one up in BC where the owner simply moved his through hull up a foot and left the rest of the hose down low! And ran it like that for years with no problem, other than it defied all the "rules". Desert Albin Steve has the yanmar with a loop and a crossover and I'm sure he will weigh in. My thinking is some kind of waterlift muffler, not exactly sure how they work, but the stock VP engine I have points the exhaust down toward the stock muffler location, in low, out high then hose has a slight upward loop under the starboard aftcabin berth then out the through hull at the waterline! Looks to me like a perfect way to sink the boat in a hurry if anything goes wrong, as you just experienced.
I don't like the idea of sacrificing the whole side berth to the exhaust, but I do think the through hull needs to be raised and the downward slope to that through hull needs to be pretty solid. Which means something's got to give. Am considering some kind of solid tube for the straight downhill run with hose connectors as needed at each end for maintenance and easier installation. Run it high and tight and straight, properly sloped, make a new, high through hull, fill the old one. Exhaust noise will increase, which I think is partly why it was originally built the way it was. Maybe keep the old through hull location with a quick 45 connection from the new high pipe and keep that water muffling effect. Done properly, no following sea would flood the engine, and no siphon would fill the hull in the event of a blowout like Kerry's. Mainly thinking out loud here, hoping to inspire better design. And quick. Kerry needs to get back in the water.
Smacksman comments:

As fibreglass burns quite nicely and engine exhaust is hot it didn't seem like a good combination.

OK, but I think rubber hose burns quite nicely as well and is that not the point of water cooling the exhaust? So you can use rubber for exhaust? (I'm fairly new to boats and some things seem just wrong, this is one of them to me.) Has anyone run a drystack up through the cab like a Kenworth? Talk about using up valuable real estate. The heat could be nice up north, in the winter, but... how about exhausting through the side of the boat? Seems like a bad idea, get it behind you. Stainless lake pipes, while looking good on your roadster, may detract from the clean Swedish lines when run down the side of the boat and might have longevity issues in a salt spray environment.
Kerry, please keep us posted how you solve this. Thank you, once again, for sharing your experiences with us.

Rick

[DesertAlbin736]

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear of this near catastrophe first time out, but glad you were close enough to get back to the ramp in time to avoid losing your boat, or worse yet, a MOB drowning. Good thing you had that kicker motor or she'd be at the bottom of the lake right now. Don't know what to say. Must have scared the crap out of you, except you probably didn't have time to feel scared until it was all over.

I know on our boat the exhaust is right at the water line & is mostly out of the water unless we put too much weight in the aft cabin.

DSCN3631.JPG

The first A25 we looked at in 2012 was this 1977 DeLuxe and had the exhaust outlet on starboard side & below the waterline. I questioned that & didn't think it looked like a good idea for exactly the same reason as what you just went through. Although comparing the photos, it might have been at or above the waterline, the owner just ran the bottom paint higher on the hull than needed so it looked lower in the water than it probably was. This is the boat the guy was asking $17K for with a 2005 40 HP Volvo (I forget the model number), and we walked because he wouldn't come down on the price more than $1,000. Silly me.

Albin (1280x960).jpg

Here's our muffler. Fiberglass, I think.

DSCN3408 (1280x960).jpg

And the elbow & exhaust hose arrangement.

Aqua Drive.jpg

Our exhaust hose has a shut off ball valve under the quarterberth floorboard between the muffler and transom. If yours doesn't have one you might want to think about installing one.

[DesertAlbin736]

The other thought I had regarding the situation is this: The person I bought the boat from had not really used it. He bought it from someone who had had the new engine installed. (It has less than 200 hrs on it). They must have experienced problems with the engine similar to what I did since it shut down so abruptly when I opened up the throttle. It seems evident that a new exhaust hose was installed with the new engine and installed incorrectly. I can't see how excessive back pressure would not have been stopping the engine at high throttle settings right from the get go.

I wonder if the engine stopped abruptly because water got in the cylinders? If that were the case I'd think the engine is probably toast. Sure hope not!

[JT48348]

An exciting after action report! You did well in responding. Good job. Now the mystery solving begins...

[smacksman]

Open the de-compression levers and crank the engine. If water comes out then you have hydraulic lock and a big repair bill.
The bit I don't get is the engine stopped, THEN there was a big bang seconds later.
The key point is that you checked water and exhaust were ok at the dockside. so the exhaust wasn't totally blocked and raw water pump was working. If the exhaust is restricted the engine will still run but it won't perform well. It won't just stop.

[kerrye]

I've slept on it and had more thoughts. On raising the outlet; I don't want to give up an aft berth. (I'll see if I can find the picture of the one for sale which did that). But if I put a 90 degree fitting on the hose right at the transom I think I could raise the hose and run it out the starboard side of the boat at a higher point, instead of out of the transom, and save the aft berth since the protrusion from the thru hull will go alongside the transom and not out into the berth area. I may have to move that transom trim panel out a few inches. What do people think of that? I do like the idea of a ball valve in the hose. I had talked about that with my friends who were aboard yesterday.
I can't imagine any good place to install a waterlift muffler.
No water got into the engine. Once the boat was on the trailer I started it and it started right up
I agree the exhaust was not totally blocked. I think it was a combination of factors. One was the very poorly installed engine exhaust hose into the Elastomuffle. It was so deep it was pushed against the baffles at the outlet end limiting the exit of exhaust and water. Secondly, it is a 42hp 4 cylinder which I think produces a lot more back pressure than the original engine or a smaller engine. Third, the Elastomuffler was old. It must have been blown up like a balloon before it exploded. But I am somewhat puzzled by Smacksman's point about the engine shutting down. It takes a lot of backpressure to shut down the engine. But then again it would take a lot of pressure to blow up the Elastomuffler. Obviously the hose was not plugged between the Elastomuffler and the transom thru-hull because water flowed freely on the Elastomuffler was opened. I can only conclude that some small portion of the engine exhaust was capable of getting thru the Elastomuffler, with the rest building up pressure between the engine and the muffler. When I opened up the throttle that increased the pressure beyond the ability of the engine to push out and caused the engine to shut down by stopping the intake air. The muffler held up for a second or two after the engine stopped running. I knew something was wrong with the installation of the exhaust hose as soon as I put my hand inside the exploded muffler. Initially I thought the hose passed straight thru the center of the muffler because I could grab it and couldn't feel the end of it. Only when I cut off the muffler at the outlet end (hose clamps were rusted and irremovable) did I realize that the inlet exhaust hose terminated right at the outlet end of the muffler. I don't know what the installer was thinking, jamming it that far inside.

[kerrye]

Raised exhaust on an Albin 25

[kerrye]

I've also since realized that there was an option besides using the outboard to get back. I could have plugged the exhaust thru hull with the rag, closed the engine cooling water thru hull, removing the cooling water hose from the thru hull and stuck it in the bilge, running the engine on the water which had accumulated in the bilge without adding any additional water by cooling with lake water.

[smacksman]

What I built in the aft cabin of my friend's yacht was an exhaust riser made out of copper water pipe and solder fittings (which I brazed, not soldered). His engine was an M90 Perkins with a 3" dia. exhaust. Boxed it in and filled the box with insulation. It made about a 4" incursion into the bunk which didn't effect the usability of the bunk. I fitted the riser off center to the transom fitting so there was an added elbow which made making off the joints easier than if it was all inline.

Albin raised exhaust2.JPG

My crude sketch of a riser.

To be honest, I don't think the outlet near waterline is the problem as when squatting under way and a following sea the waves can be half way up the transom.

On the same boat I fitted a valved bypass to the raw water inlet to suck from the bilge as you say. However, I did fit a big strum box as once emergency water is coming into the boat there is a huge amount of flotsum in the bilge.
Roger.

[kerrye]

Hmm, I hadn't thought about copper. I suppose I could put a big loop of hose at the transom and then back down to the existing thru hull. I don't know how flexible exhaust hose is.
How necessary are mufflers to our engines? I only ran the engine briefly once it was on the trailer and I wasn't thinking about noise, but it was exhausting directly into the bilge behind the seat and it didn't seem any louder than normal to me.
I do have a bypass on my cooling water intake for sucking in anti-freeze for winter. I could have opened that valve.